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#41 BLATEY

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 02:05 PM

View Postrobbespierre, on 04 March 2014 - 12:44 PM, said:

so what nubbing would u suggest

I personally suggest the G&G green bucking and nubbing, they both come in the package together.

#42 vanevery

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 05:16 PM

In regards to Hop-up.
I have tried everything about every way except for ER-hop and LRB's.
ER-hop and LRB's are next on the agenda.

- Endless Barrel and Bucking combinations.

- Flat-hop (endless combinations)

- R-hop ( Home-made patches and the original HS5 R-hop patches and M-nubs).
I am also still working on more ways to approach R-hop.

- I even have my own Hop-up mod I am developing.
I would describe it as an evolution (or possibly adaption) of R-hop and Flat Hop)

I have been to the range now 36 times over 18 months.
I have only documented a few days out of this time.
A lot of what I have learned and accomplished I have chosen to wait to document.  This on order to video document everything.
I feel it is becoming somewhat pointless to state that X barrel, and Y Hop-up Mod, with fill in the blank bb weight and brand can achieve Z performance.
Without proof, I am not sure anyone would believe it. So, I purchased a couple of video cameras and will be documenting my days at the range.

I am busy with life and work right now, but am making progress towards getting my guns ready. Matter of fact, I am almost done with my High power DMR Gearbox. Finished the mosfet and wiring last night. Just need to shim the gears and re-assemble the gun. I will be fielding two DMR's at the Range for testing.
1. High Power DMR (wow build).
2. Filed/Game ready DMR (450 fps measured w/ .25's).

In regards to Drop-in Buckings:
1. Lonex 70 Degree
2. G&G Green Bucking
These two are simply awesome.
I can easily hit 350' and more with both these Drop-in Buckings and without Barrel Lock-down. Accuracy is much better with Barrel Lock Down, but can hit the target regardless.

#43 philippe07024

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 09:37 AM

Hello Mr Vanevery,
Thank you for sharing your experience and your tests. You are so passionate and comprehensive in your approach. This is remarkable.
In reference to the field ready DMR, would you consider putting together a to-do list and an equipment list that could be duplicated (maybe someday a "Vanevery Long Range Kit")?
Best Regards,
Philippe

#44 vanevery

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 11:51 AM

phillippe07024

Thank you for your interest in the subject of long range.
To answer your question, I can do that more extensively at the appropriate time.

I have been to this range 36 times now and have only documented a handful of days.
There are many thing that I have learned along the way and many accomplishments made I have not shared.
I would prefer to get things on video and visibly show what given set-ups with given brand and weight of ammo can do in given meteorological conditions. I am both preparing for the next round of DMR testing and also trying to avoid a lot of wasted posts of " That can't happen" "Yes it can" type of thing.

My education is on going and have yet to reach the farthest distances my guns are capable of shooting.
My technical knowledge is growing from studying technical topics on airsoft forums as well as trying some of my own ideas and approaches to modifications. What I am trying to say is I do not know everything.
I am, however, enjoying every minute of this project and learning experience.
The rewards of setting goals, accomplishing them, and then surpassing them has been endless fun.

If you would like, I can offer suggestions of parts and modification as a baseline to go by.
This would not be the begin all, end all list of suggestions or anything like that.
Just a baseline to go by to build a great shooting DMR at the most basic level, but that would yield great performance.

#45 philippe07024

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Posted 26 March 2014 - 06:33 PM

View Postvanevery, on 25 March 2014 - 11:51 AM, said:

phillippe07024

Thank you for your interest in the subject of long range.
To answer your question, I can do that more extensively at the appropriate time.

I have been to this range 36 times now and have only documented a handful of days.
There are many thing that I have learned along the way and many accomplishments made I have not shared.
I would prefer to get things on video and visibly show what given set-ups with given brand and weight of ammo can do in given meteorological conditions. I am both preparing for the next round of DMR testing and also trying to avoid a lot of wasted posts of " That can't happen" "Yes it can" type of thing.

My education is on going and have yet to reach the farthest distances my guns are capable of shooting.
My technical knowledge is growing from studying technical topics on airsoft forums as well as trying some of my own ideas and approaches to modifications. What I am trying to say is I do not know everything.
I am, however, enjoying every minute of this project and learning experience.
The rewards of setting goals, accomplishing them, and then surpassing them has been endless fun.

If you would like, I can offer suggestions of parts and modification as a baseline to go by.
This would not be the begin all, end all list of suggestions or anything like that.
Just a baseline to go by to build a great shooting DMR at the most basic level, but that would yield great performance.

Vanevery,
Thank you for the prompt response.
Yes I would be very interested in a baseline suggestion for parts and modifications.
Looking forward to reading you.
Philippe

#46 philippe07024

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 01:47 PM

View Postphilippe07024, on 26 March 2014 - 06:33 PM, said:

Vanevery,
Thank you for the prompt response.
Yes I would be very interested in a baseline suggestion for parts and modifications.
Looking forward to reading you.
Philippe
Vanevery,

For the baseline parts and mods for a great shooting DMR you mentionned, what gun do you plan to use?

Philippe.

#47 vanevery

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 04:28 PM

I will give this a proper response. I have just been busy with work, working on customers guns, and life since your last communication. Look for it in the next week or two. Sorry for the delay. As you can see, my time is limited as of this moment. This is why this ongoing DMR project has not been updated yet.

#48 philippe07024

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 09:00 AM

View Postvanevery, on 10 April 2014 - 04:28 PM, said:

I will give this a proper response. I have just been busy with work, working on customers guns, and life since your last communication. Look for it in the next week or two. Sorry for the delay. As you can see, my time is limited as of this moment. This is why this ongoing DMR project has not been updated yet.
No problem. I just want to be on the lookout for a good deal on the base gun.

#49 vanevery

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 01:58 PM

I will respond more in depth on parts and mods and approaches to DMR's.

To specifically answer your question, any gun can be turned into a DMR.
Some gun models accommodate such a build better than others.
I would say the most common DMR gun models would be:
- M4/M16
- SR 25
- M14
- AK47.
- AUG
- L85

Personally, I am an m4/m16 guy.
I like other guns, but have always gravitated to the m4/m16 for function, ease of access to internals, external accessory accommodation, larger battery compartment sizes, magazine availability, and endless availability of internal and external parts.

As far as  gun brands go, I obviously like KWA.
I find the KWA m4/m16 a fantastic base gun for DMR's.
- Best stock compression of any brand airsoft gun.
- Reinforced Gearbox Shell and Trigger Post.
- Fantastic Hop-up Unit performance wise.
- SR12, SR10, and KM4 RIS already have the externals mostly done except for a Scope and Bi-Pod.
The M4 RIS would then need a longer barrel and Mock Suppressor.
- Strongest Sector Gear on the market.
- Ability to accept all DIY mods and most after-market parts, TM compatible or otherwise.
- Very good stock wiring and Trigger Contacts that actually handle low amp Li-po's quite well without a mosfet.
- Excellent stock Inner Barrels.
- Good Piston.
- The price. KWA's are very fairly priced.
1. $300.00 for a KWA M16BR
2. $330.00 FOR A KM4 RIS
3. $350.00 for a KWA SR10
http://www.evike.com/shop/21/44/223/

I would say all of this makes a great base gun for a DMR.

Edited by vanevery, 11 April 2014 - 01:59 PM.


#50 philippe07024

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 04:37 AM

Hi Vanevery,
Thank you for the answer. Reading your other posts I had a feeling you would go with KWA.
A few questions:
I believe the hop-up assembly unit is proprietary on KWA. Doesn't limit the options for upgrading it? For instance: does it exist in metal?
Is there any other proprietary components on this gun? (magazines?)

#51 vanevery

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 03:29 PM

View Postphilippe07024, on 14 April 2014 - 04:37 AM, said:

Hi Vanevery,
Thank you for the answer. Reading your other posts I had a feeling you would go with KWA.
A few questions:
I believe the hop-up assembly unit is proprietary on KWA. Doesn't limit the options for upgrading it? For instance: does it exist in metal?
Is there any other proprietary components on this gun? (magazines?)

Hop-up.
KWA uses a Split Hop-up design.
It is proprietary, but makes no difference for you will not find a better quality or better performing Split-Hop design by any other manufacturer.
The Split-Hop design gets a bad rap for it is a free float design, so the barrel moves on every shot.
In real world testing, the accuracy and distance is quite impressive up to 100 yards (300').
I can even light up the target at 330' and with a drop-in bucking with no issues and no barrel lock-down.
It does not exist in metal, but your KWA Air Nozzle is metal.

The Hop-up Unit is nothing you need to worry about.
Matter of fact, you can take confidence in knowing you have the KWA Hop-up Unit in your gun.
The only issue you may come across is installing thicker rubber buckings into the Hop-up Unit.
No worries there either.
I install the thickest of rubbers in my KWA Hop-up Units all the time.
A few drops of 100% silicone oil that you can find at any Hobby Shop will solve that problem.
Get something around 30wt.
I just picked up a new bottle myself over the weekend
Have lots of projects and customers in the immediate future.
You can also trim the bucking tail if it enters into your C-clip area.

Magazines:
KWA gets unfairly portrayed as a gun with finicky mag wells.
My experience has been quite the opposite.
I have used:
- JG/ECHO1
- D-Boy
- Classic Army
- Mag Brand
- and a few others and no fitting issues of magazines to speak of.
The K-120 Mid Caps have been the best feeding Mid-Caps I have ever used in any gun.

Proprietary Parts:
There are some.
- Air Nozzle.
This gets over-blown as well.
It is not so much that KWA guns cannot take after-market air nozzles, they can indeed.
You really should not have a problem using about any Air Nozzle you wanted to.
It is that other guns cannot use the KWA Air Nozzle for it has a Ridge that rides along the top of it that will not allow it to enter the Hop-up Units of other guns. So, the bb's cannot feed in that situation.

- Cut-Off Lever
The Cut-Off Lever is a bit proprietary, though I have used it with success at times, and not success at other times with TM Compatible Trigger Trollys. I just installed some China Clone TM Compatible Trigger Trolly in my last customers KWA SR12, and switched out a 3GX Cut-Off Lever for a 2GX one that I had, and it works perfectly.

Gearbox Shell
- The gearbox shell is proprietary when it omes to installing it in other brand receivers, only because it is heavily reinforced at the forward Cylinder Windows.
However, you will have no trouble installing any TM Clone Gearbox shell in your KWA receivers.

Cylinder Head/Cylinder Nozzle:
- I used to say the Cylinder Head and Cylinder Nozzle were proprietary, now I am not sure about that.
Ether way, I don't think you will find a better Cylinder Head and Cylinder Nozzle than your Stock KWA in terms of performance. KWA has the best stock compression of any airsoft gun in my opinion.
There is just no reason to change that out.

Hope this helps.
Keep in mind that often times changing parts in an airsoft gun is not an upgrade, just a change.
The parts that you can change and really get better performance in your KWA gun are:
- Bucking
- Piston
- Piston Head (still testing this theory out: Ported vs Non-ported Piston Head for performance).
- Ball Bearing Bushings for Solid Metal Bushings. ( These are actually ok for heavy springs and ROF builds at 25 to 28rps and under provided the gears are shimmed correctly).
- Shimming
- Motor

On top of that I would suggest a full tune-up and some Hop-up Mods and Barrel Lock-Down.
I would also suggest a Full/Type-0 Cylinder and a 455mm Inner Barrel for maximizing range.

Edited by vanevery, 14 April 2014 - 06:00 PM.


#52 philippe07024

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 05:16 PM

Mr. V.
Thank you again for your ongoing advice.
My order for a brand new KWA SR10 is placed. Your thorough explanations and experimentation sharing gave me confidence.
I will use it with no mod for the time of the warranty and provide feedback on my in the field experience.
My experiments to improve an Airsoft GI custom Lonex have been not really successful (363 to 407mm 6.03 and 6.01 inner barrel, different buckings and hop up assemblies, barrel lock down). I am back to the stock barrel and bucking.
I am looking for range and accuracy, maybe damping the noise; rof is not a factor (probably will have to mod to semi only if high fps).
Thanks again,
Philippe

#53 vanevery

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 06:24 PM

View Postphilippe07024, on 14 April 2014 - 05:16 PM, said:

Mr. V.
Thank you again for your ongoing advice.
My order for a brand new KWA SR10 is placed. Your thorough explanations and experimentation sharing gave me confidence.
I will use it with no mod for the time of the warranty and provide feedback on my in the field experience.
My experiments to improve an Airsoft GI custom Lonex have been not really successful (363 to 407mm 6.03 and 6.01 inner barrel, different buckings and hop up assemblies, barrel lock down). I am back to the stock barrel and bucking.
I am looking for range and accuracy, maybe damping the noise; rof is not a factor (probably will have to mod to semi only if high fps).
Thanks again,
Philippe
SR10:
Fantastic Gun.
You will have plenty of range and fantastic accuracy with this gun.
Outstanding 425mm Inner Barrel.

Just understand this:
- You will need to thoroughly clean the Inner Barrel and Bucking from the start.
All guns shoot out excess grease form the gearbox when new.
KWA's are especially bad about this.
So, your initial shooting performance before cleaning may be quite poor compared to what your gun is capable of.
The shooting performance will noticeably improve when the Inner Barrel and Bucking are clean.

- I HIGHLY SUGGEST cleaning the Inner Barrel and bucking by dis-assembling the Hop-up Unit.
Learn how here if you have not done this already: http://www.kwausa.co...p?showtopic=493
This will allow for proper removal and installation of Buckings and Inner Barrels, as well as provide access to the Hop-up Unit for proper cleaning. Trying to do a straight-up barrel install will more times than not un-seat the Nub and completely mess up your shooting performance.

- Opinion:
The stock 2g bucking is not a fantastic performer in my opinion.
Some have great experiences with it, others not so much.
My experience with the 2g Bucking has not been fantastic.
It will perform much better with a Nub Mod, that I can say for sure.
I suggest that to bring the best performance out of your KWA gun, a quality Bucking with a standard Bucking Mound will serve you well.
I suggest starting with a Lonex 50 Degree Bucking.
As you gain experience with the KWA Hop-up Unit, go to a Lonex 70 Degree Bucking.

This I can promise you.
Once your Hop-up Unit and Inner Barrel are cleaned, and you install a new Bucking such as the Lonex 50 Degree Bucking, you will be out-shooting all other stock m4's at every airsoft field you go to.

Edited by vanevery, 14 April 2014 - 06:33 PM.


#54 gcw360

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 06:25 PM

View Postvanevery, on 14 April 2014 - 03:29 PM, said:

Hop-up.
KWA uses a Split Hop-up design.
It is proprietary, but makes no difference for you will not find a better quality or better performing Split-Hop design by any other manufacturer.
The Split-Hop design gets a bad rap for it is a free float design, so the barrel moves on every shot.
In real world testing, the accuracy and distance is quite impressive up to 100 yards (300').
I can even light up the target at 330' and with a drop-in bucking with no issues and no barrel lock-down.
It does not exist in metal, but your KWA Air Nozzle is metal.

The Hop-up Unit is nothing you need to worry about.
Matter of fact, you can take confidence in knowing you have the KWA Hop-up Unit in your gun.
The only issue you may come across is installing thicker rubber buckings into the Hop-up Unit.
No worries there either.
I install the thickest of rubbers in my KWA Hop-up Units all the time.
A few drops of 100% silicone oil that you can find at any Hobby Shop will solve that problem.
Get something around 30wt.
I just picked up a new bottle myself over the weekend
Have lots of projects and customers in the immediate future.
You can also trim the bucking tail if it enters into your C-clip area.

Magazines:
KWA gets unfairly portrayed as a gun with finicky mag wells.
My experience has been quite the opposite.
I have used:
- JG/ECHO1
- D-Boy
- Classic Army
- Mag Brand
- and a few others and no fitting issues of magazines to speak of.
The K-120 Mid Caps have been the best feeding Mid-Caps I have ever used in any gun.

Proprietary Parts:
There are some.
- Air Nozzle.
This gets over-blown as well.
It is not so much that KWA guns cannot take after-market air nozzles, they can indeed.
You really should not have a problem using about any Air Nozzle you wanted to.
It is that other guns cannot use the KWA Air Nozzle for it has a Ridge that rides along the top of it that will not allow it to enter the Hop-up Units of other guns. So, the bb's cannot feed in that situation.

- Cut-Off Lever
The Cut-Off Lever is a bit proprietary, though I have used it with success at times, and not success at other times with TM Compatible Trigger Trollys. I just installed some China Clone TM Compatible Trigger Trolly in my last customers KWA SR12, and switched out a 3GX Cut-Off Lever for a 2GX one that I had, and it works perfectly.

Gearbox Shell
- The gearbox shell is proprietary when it omes to installing it in other brand receivers, only because it is heavily reinforced at the forward Cylinder Windows.
However, you will have no trouble installing any TM Clone Gearbox shell in your KWA receivers.

Cylinder Head/Cylinder Nozzle:
- I used to say the Cylinder Head and Cylinder Nozzle were proprietary, now I am not sure about that.
Ether way, I don't think you will find a better Cylinder Head and Cylinder Nozzle than your Stock KWA in terms of performance. KWA has the best stock compression of any airsoft gun in my opinion.
There is just no reason to change that out.

Hope this helps.
Keep in mind that often times changing parts in an airsoft gun is not an upgrade, just a change.
The parts that you can change and really get better performance in your KWA gun are:
- Bucking
- Piston
- Piston Head (still testing this theory out: Ported vs Non-ported Piston Head for performance).
- Ball Bearing Bushings for Solid Metal Bushings. ( These are actually ok for heavy springs and ROF builds at 25 to 28rps and under provided the gears are shimmed correctly).
- Shimming
- Motor

On top of that I would suggest a full tune-up and some Hop-up Mods and Barrel Lock-Down.
I would also suggest a Full/Type-0 Cylinder and a 455mm Inner Barrel for maximizing range.
Believe it or not, with regard to the hop-up. There are other manufacturers that use the design including JG and some TM.

#55 tumtumsdmon

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Posted 19 April 2014 - 09:20 PM

Hey vanevery,
This is an awesome read, keep up the good work! Can't believe that this has been going on for over 2 years now! It is a wealth of information. Hope you can keep it coming with the information on the testing!

I was wondering what would you recommendation as a bucking for the edgi 509mm 6.02 barrel? I see that you mostly have been using the G&G green bucking and the Lonex 70 degree bucking with a lot of combinations of different mods. I am leaning towards the Lonex bucking as a drop in though.

I have a KWA CQR Mod 1 which is shooting around 345 fps now with the new edgi 509mm 6.02 barrel, but I feel like I am not getting the most range out of my gun. I would like to keep it under 350 fps to use for certain field limits, which I know would limit the range I could get, but I am hoping to max out the range I could get with the stock components.

I am running stock internals with just the edgi 509mm 6.02 barrel as an upgrade, and I was getting about 150ft "effective" range the other day. "Effective" range to me was to at least hit the target without lobbing or arching the bbs. I was shooting at a friend's back yard and we measured every 50ft all the way up to 250ft. I tried to tune my hop up to get the bbs flying straight as possible beforehand. I set up a table and everything to try and reduce human error. I would shoot at each 50ft mark. My test was to be able to hit a 2ft by 3ft target on a wall. Everything before 150ft was hitting 10 out of 10, which is no surprise. Up until I got to 150ft, the best I got was hitting 7 out of 10 shots. After that, I tried 200ft and I would barely even hit the wall. So I backed up and I was able to at least hit the wall at 175ft, but they were hitting at the feet of the wall. All of this was with Matrix .2 bbs (which I know, aren't as great, but it was all I had until I got some new ones).

Once I get some .25s or maybe even .3 I will test it again. But I would also like to try out a new bucking. I am hoping to push past 200ft if possible while running stock internals and only upgrading the barrel and hop up bucking. And of course, to keep the fps under 350fps. Since I got the edgi 509mm barrel, I just need to get a new bucking. Hope you can recommend me a good bucking! Thanks!

Hope you can reply soon! And hope you can have more time to do these testings! Thanks for the reply in advance!

#56 gato

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Posted 24 April 2014 - 04:24 AM

Hi everybody!
I keep testing in my DMR SR10 project, and in a base of research I read in the redwolf airsoft shop (UK) and now in airsoft GI, I want to know if anybody have a first hand impresion of the "Prometheus 6.20mm Delta Strike Barrel for Tokyo Marui M16A1 / A2 / VN / Steyr AUG".
The sistem and principles looks very clear, but i can't found in the web how it really works.
If anybody use and can prove this barrel can post some review, I really appreciate that.

Best regards from Chile!

#57 philippe07024

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 04:35 PM

View Postvanevery, on 14 April 2014 - 06:24 PM, said:

SR10:
Fantastic Gun.
You will have plenty of range and fantastic accuracy with this gun.
Outstanding 425mm Inner Barrel.

Just understand this:
- You will need to thoroughly clean the Inner Barrel and Bucking from the start.
All guns shoot out excess grease form the gearbox when new.
KWA's are especially bad about this.
So, your initial shooting performance before cleaning may be quite poor compared to what your gun is capable of.
The shooting performance will noticeably improve when the Inner Barrel and Bucking are clean.

- I HIGHLY SUGGEST cleaning the Inner Barrel and bucking by dis-assembling the Hop-up Unit.
Learn how here if you have not done this already: http://www.kwausa.co...p?showtopic=493
This will allow for proper removal and installation of Buckings and Inner Barrels, as well as provide access to the Hop-up Unit for proper cleaning. Trying to do a straight-up barrel install will more times than not un-seat the Nub and completely mess up your shooting performance.

- Opinion:
The stock 2g bucking is not a fantastic performer in my opinion.
Some have great experiences with it, others not so much.
My experience with the 2g Bucking has not been fantastic.
It will perform much better with a Nub Mod, that I can say for sure.
I suggest that to bring the best performance out of your KWA gun, a quality Bucking with a standard Bucking Mound will serve you well.
I suggest starting with a Lonex 50 Degree Bucking.
As you gain experience with the KWA Hop-up Unit, go to a Lonex 70 Degree Bucking.

This I can promise you.
Once your Hop-up Unit and Inner Barrel are cleaned, and you install a new Bucking such as the Lonex 50 Degree Bucking, you will be out-shooting all other stock m4's at every airsoft field you go to.

Dear Mr. V.
I took my brand new SR10 to a field today (Zulu24 upstate NY) after thorough cleaning and installation of a Lonex 50degrees bucking as you recommended. I surely passed the 2000 rounds break-in period mentioned in KWA manual.
It was kind of hard to gauge well the accuracy due to a quite gusty wind all day, but I had several hits at 50-60 yards. While not outstanding, I did not need to use full auto to hit the targets, semi-auto was sufficient (comparing with my other guns).
I found that the .30g BBs (Bioval Bio) gave me better accuracy than .25g (it could be linked to the wind).
The SR10 is definitely a very promising baseline.
Thank you for the guidance.

In a previous post (dating 14 April 2014 - 07:29 PM), you provided several suggestions for the next steps to reach long range accuracy.
Could you please rank or group them from the most significant to the least? Also, if you have time, please provide when applicable the brands and model of parts you recommend to use.

Philippe

Edited by philippe07024, 04 May 2014 - 04:41 PM.


#58 vanevery

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 06:06 PM

1. Quality heavy ammo of at least .32 and up.
- Elite Force Bio .32
- GoldenBall .32 Premium.
- WE .36(washed).
- Core .43(washed).

.30's are nice, but are useless in wind past 50 yards.
Every little bit of weight you add to the bb makes a huge difference in distance and accuracy.

2. Hop-up Unit:
- Bucking: Lonex 70 Degree.

The best long range Bucking, period!
Great for Drop-in use or modified for R-hop and Flat-hop.

- R-hop/Flat-hop:
Save this for last, but when you get to it and install  both of these mods correctly, you will be glad you did.
Until then, a Lonex 70 Degree will impress.

- Mega Teflon Mod:
I came up with this when experimenting with different Inner Barrel Lock-Down and Vibration Control methods.
The difference in performance is noticeably better for it completes perfect air seal in the Hop-up Unit as well as assisting greatly in Vibration Control of the Inner Barrel.
I also do not like C-clips.
This mod provides a much better alternative to using C-clips and holds the barrel stable much more effectively than C-clips. It also allows for Buckings to extend into the C-clip area with no issues.
http://www.airsoftfo...post&p=18730466

3. 455mm Inner Barrel.
My favorite is the MadBull 455mm/6.03tbb.
Best barrel for the money.
I have three of them in use with KWA's.
Simply Awesome!

4. Full / Type-O Cylinder.
Air Guns need air for max distance.
No way around this.
Using a ported Cylinder will never shoot as far in the same set-up when compared to a Full/Type-0 Cylinder.

5. Scope and Bi-pod.
Past 50 yards, I find shooting from a rest position more accurate.
I also find using a scope more reliable than Iron Sights.
It also has all the obvious benefits of tracking a bb at distances past 300'.
Tip: Use a scope with an Objective Lens of at least 50mm.
Makes a noticeable difference in the ability to track the bb at long range.

6. Barrel lock-Down / Vibration Control.
A barrel that does not move or vibrate will produce farther distance and more accurate shots.
There is just no way around this.

7. FPS:
Really does not matter.
I use 450fps measured with .25's as a baseline for testing.
I also have a high powered DMR using a m170 spring for testing.
My intention is to also build a 1 Joule max DMR to see what I can do with it compared to others who are only able to have as much as 1 Joule in their airsoft guns per their Country's requirements.
I would say whatever your fps, 300' should be the benchmark for range and accuracy.

I will expand on this more later.
To do so now will make this post a mile long.
If you implement all the above suggestions, you will see noticeable shooting performance increases.

Edited by vanevery, 04 May 2014 - 06:08 PM.


#59 philippe07024

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 03:09 PM

View Postvanevery, on 04 May 2014 - 06:06 PM, said:

1. Quality heavy ammo of at least .32 and up.
...
If you implement all the above suggestions, you will see noticeable shooting performance increases.

Thank you Mr. V.!
I ordered the parts. Will keep you posted.

#60 vanevery

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Posted 10 May 2014 - 04:30 PM

View Posttumtumsdmon, on 19 April 2014 - 09:20 PM, said:

Hey vanevery,
This is an awesome read, keep up the good work! Can't believe that this has been going on for over 2 years now! It is a wealth of information. Hope you can keep it coming with the information on the testing!

I was wondering what would you recommendation as a bucking for the edgi 509mm 6.02 barrel? I see that you mostly have been using the G&G green bucking and the Lonex 70 degree bucking with a lot of combinations of different mods. I am leaning towards the Lonex bucking as a drop in though.

I have a KWA CQR Mod 1 which is shooting around 345 fps now with the new edgi 509mm 6.02 barrel, but I feel like I am not getting the most range out of my gun. I would like to keep it under 350 fps to use for certain field limits, which I know would limit the range I could get, but I am hoping to max out the range I could get with the stock components.

I am running stock internals with just the edgi 509mm 6.02 barrel as an upgrade, and I was getting about 150ft "effective" range the other day. "Effective" range to me was to at least hit the target without lobbing or arching the bbs. I was shooting at a friend's back yard and we measured every 50ft all the way up to 250ft. I tried to tune my hop up to get the bbs flying straight as possible beforehand. I set up a table and everything to try and reduce human error. I would shoot at each 50ft mark. My test was to be able to hit a 2ft by 3ft target on a wall. Everything before 150ft was hitting 10 out of 10, which is no surprise. Up until I got to 150ft, the best I got was hitting 7 out of 10 shots. After that, I tried 200ft and I would barely even hit the wall. So I backed up and I was able to at least hit the wall at 175ft, but they were hitting at the feet of the wall. All of this was with Matrix .2 bbs (which I know, aren't as great, but it was all I had until I got some new ones).

Once I get some .25s or maybe even .3 I will test it again. But I would also like to try out a new bucking. I am hoping to push past 200ft if possible while running stock internals and only upgrading the barrel and hop up bucking. And of course, to keep the fps under 350fps. Since I got the edgi 509mm barrel, I just need to get a new bucking. Hope you can recommend me a good bucking! Thanks!

Hope you can reply soon! And hope you can have more time to do these testings! Thanks for the reply in advance!
CQR Mod1:

Bucking:
- Start off with the Lonex 50 Degree.
- Move up to the Lonex 70 Degree.
- Try a G&G Green, these are great for long range as well.

Cylinder:
- The Cylinder is a Type 3 or 4.
- There is just not enough air to push a bb out of a 509mm Inner Barrel.
I am very surprised you are getting the results you are getting, that you can shoot that far.
- You need to change out the Cylinder.
Since you need to open the Gearbox to do this, go ahead and choose a Full/Type-O Cylinder.

BB's:
Use quality heavy ammo of at least .30 for long range shooting.
.32 and up, preferably.

I like your testing method of measuring off distance and working your way back from the target.
This makes sense and I appreciate your common sense.
Too often people begin their testing at 300' or something.
My method now is to almost always begin at 10 yards out and move back every ten yards.
Then get dialed in at 50 yards making sure 10 of every 10 shots are on target at very tight groupings.
Then move every 10 yards back until I reach max distance.

Edited by vanevery, 10 May 2014 - 06:23 PM.





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