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Anti-Dryfire mechanism


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#1 kullwarrior

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 04:10 PM

I was watching the KSC AK74M firing and notice the anti dry fire mechanism seem to resemble SRC AK design. Is it going to be the same for the KWA AK74M? AFAIK I've never heard of KWA gun functionally different from KSC (aside from material differences and FPS)

If this is the means which it stop firing, I'm swayed to buy GHK one instead.

This is compiliation of anti-dry fire method
Daytonagun (external air) No anti-dryfire mechanism
GHK (with dboys body) No anti-dryfire mechanism
SRC: Follower will prevent bolt carrier going all the way forward, aesthetically unrealistic.
GHK 2009 and up: Follower will trip a lever prevent hammer from dropping with a empty magazine inserted (bolt carrier sit all the way forward)
WE: Follower trips a lever, prevent firie pin from hitting gas release valve. Most realistic anti-dry fire mechanism

#2 Tiger_Stripe

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 11:03 AM

I agree it is very strange, a bit worrying. I for see an enormous sticker that says "Whatever you do, do not force the bolt forward when the magazine is set to anti dry fire!" and KWA stocking a lot of replacement loading nubs/pistons (since I am assuming that is what the piston 'sits' on when it goes to cycle the last round in).

On the other hand it is nice to know you are out of ammo rather than you have a gun malfunction. Real Ak's you just assume you're out and reload (they are that reliable).

I own a Daytona RPK and indeed there is no anti dry fire mechanism, but the sound difference is obvious enough for me (The thing is loud!).

#3 Brigg

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 06:15 PM

I dont think theres any reason to believe that the US version will be different from the Asia version in this regard.

But theres no reason to think that this should be that big of a problem. From what I understand from talking to some reps, the loading nozzle is going to be reinforced similarly to the LM4. If theyre smart, they'll reinforce the mag follower as well, and then there shouldnt be an issue with wearing on either part so long as the materials are the same.

I've been fielding a VFC Mp5 GBBR for a while now and it has this same sort of "Slam the loading nozzle into the follower" anti dry-fire and while you do have to occasionally replace followers, they are under a dollar a piece so its not that big a problem.

#4 BoobieM4H

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 08:50 AM

Replacing bb followers in my mags no matter the cost is not something i want to do. I own the WE ak and their design for disabling the firing pin to not hit the release valve on mag is the best ive seen. And no wear on my nozzle from anything except the normal wear.

( o Y o )



#5 BeachEMT

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 01:56 PM

Boobie, could you maybe go into some more detail on how the WE system works? Since all these systems sound fairly simple, maybe there's a way to retro fit the AKG with a better system (assuming that in uses the horrible idea of using the follower to prop open the bolt).

#6 kullwarrior

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 05:23 PM

View PostBeachEMT, on 02 December 2012 - 01:56 PM, said:

Boobie, could you maybe go into some more detail on how the WE system works? Since all these systems sound fairly simple, maybe there's a way to retro fit the AKG with a better system (assuming that in uses the horrible idea of using the follower to prop open the bolt).

In short the follower trips a lever which will prevent the firing pin from striking the release valve.

#7 BeachEMT

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 12:35 AM

Does the lever just physically block the valve or does it trigger something else?

If it just blocks the valve, I think that would be very easy to implement retroactively. You would just have the follower raise to the blank fire level. My only concern with that is the striking and blocking mechanism getting worn down.

Edited by BeachEMT, 03 December 2012 - 12:37 AM.


#8 kullwarrior

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 01:47 AM

View PostBeachEMT, on 03 December 2012 - 12:35 AM, said:

Does the lever just physically block the valve or does it trigger something else?

If it just blocks the valve, I think that would be very easy to implement retroactively. You would just have the follower raise to the blank fire level. My only concern with that is the striking and blocking mechanism getting worn down.

That is actually a problem in WE where the pot metal striker can break from this design. Steel replacement fix the issue.

#9 BeachEMT

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 12:48 PM

So then I take it that it just physically blocks the valve. Seems easy enough to replicate, but I see why KWA would opt to break follower as opposed to gas firing pins. There must be a better way than both of these...

#10 Tiger_Stripe

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 05:34 PM

Before we heard about the current anti dry fire mechanism, I thought KWA was going to use something similar to their 1911's slide lock. On the last round, follower pops up along with a protrusion that trips a lever and keeps the hammer from striking the valve. It would work the same as a real AK and the bolt would travel over the follower. Or lever tripps and holds the bolt carrier back like a slide lock, take out the empty mag and pull back on the bolt to release the lever and let the bolt follow forward. I believe there are some AKs that do this.

Clearly, there is some tidbit of wisdom or context we aren't realizing that would justify a company that markets to 'professionals' using this mechanism.

#11 Comissar

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 06:58 PM

Yes, I would like an ak with a slide lock

#12 kullwarrior

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 07:43 PM

Companies throw the words training rifle or professional grade as a market attempt to get civilian purchase it.

Look at inokatsu with their masterwork training rifle

//sorry for odd autocorrect words by my phone//



#13 BeachEMT

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 08:02 PM

Personally I've never seen an AK with a slide lock. I just wish KWA would implement a way to disengage the gas valve hammer when the mag was empty. That would be the most professionally realistic option, since that would mimic 99% of the world's AKs (or at least all the ones I've used and that's quite a lot).

Edit: I looked up AK bolt hold open. Its a modification for the magazine follower that stops the bolt. Here's a link: http://www.ar15.com/...age.html?id=665

To be honest, its a very ineffective process, since you have to set the selector to safe for every mag change. I would never run that on an AK, so I don't want to train that way.

Edited by BeachEMT, 03 December 2012 - 08:54 PM.


#14 LooneyAirsoft

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 03:03 PM

I would prefer the hammer to be stopped than the bolt as well.

If KWA doesn't change it, I guess we''ll just have to see if there is any modification that could be done when it comes time.

#15 kullwarrior

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 05:38 PM

View PostLooney, on 09 December 2012 - 03:03 PM, said:

I would prefer the hammer to be stopped than the bolt as well.

If KWA doesn't change it, I guess we''ll just have to see if there is any modification that could be done when it comes time.

This is NOT a simple change. WE did it with a complete design magazine (than their traditional ones) and using a different firing pin/ knocker than their traditional type.

#16 BeachEMT

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 11:06 PM

View Postkullwarrior, on 09 December 2012 - 05:38 PM, said:

This is NOT a simple change. WE did it with a complete design magazine (than their traditional ones) and using a different firing pin/ knocker than their traditional type.

Could you elaborate? I'm not quite sure what you are trying to say.

#17 Tiger_Stripe

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 12:56 PM

BeachEMT, I had heard of the AK slide lock second hand. Upon further research it turns out to be a trick used by some AK users on a handful of AK models, they release the hammer as the bolt is back and it locks the action up. Not something I'd ever trust, but it's a cool cocktail party trick.

If the difference between the bolt being able to dry fire or not is the follower height (determined by the dial on the side of the magazine), could this same mechanism be used to force some arm or plate up when the follower is high enough? I wish I could see a parts diagram of the magazine. Also what does that nob that goes between S and something even do?

#18 BeachEMT

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 03:34 PM

Thanks for the trick on locking the slide. Do you know if it works for Saigas? I might have to see if I can get it to work some time.

I was thinking that even in the blank fire mode the follower would be above the position of "one last BB". It could have a mechanism like the LM4 magazine, which the follower tips a lever, that then engages the AR-15 bolt catch. The lever could raise something to block the hammer. My only concern is that it would wear down the hammer quickly. I wonder if there was a way to implement a aftermarket hammer that would "break away" when the blocking plate was up.

#19 Tiger_Stripe

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 05:18 PM

When I did hear about AK slide locking we were talking about Arsenal Aks. I've heard that it only works with some  AKs, you rack the bolt back, release the hammer, then ease the bolt forward until it stops. To release, pull the bolt all the way back and let go.

Yeah, that method would require a buffer on the 'valve shield' to prevent the hammer from hurting itself.

#20 BeachEMT

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 07:23 PM

I was think of that. Only problem I can think of is a frozen or sticky valve could cause a failure to fire. I was thinking about maybe having the system being completely magazine implemented. Maybe some system where even if the hammer depressed the valve, something internally would block from the resevoir to the valve.




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