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Project: Airsoft Barrel Dynamics Research


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#1 MultipleParadox

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 05:51 AM

Hi all,

I am a member of ASC (Airsoft Canada forums) on which the guys at BB Bastards posted about their research project, and I wanted to announce it here to help spread the word.

Note that I am in no way affiliated to BB Bastard OR the project itself. Just a passionate airsofter like most of you.

The goal is to generate real statistics through empiric/scientific testing, from what I get. It will help better understand how the BBs really travels in different barrel/hopup setups at different speed and debunk a few myths at the same time, I guess.

Their main thread is here: http://airsoftcanada...ad.php?t=145636

But they also created an Indigogo (think Kickstarter) project to help them with the project;
If anyone is interested in this and want to help them out, you can support them by going there:
http://www.indiegogo...softmyth?c=home

Thanks for viewing!

MP

#2 vanevery

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 11:46 AM

I have been following this.
I think there can be some quality data to be gained from it but one day of testing is not enough.
There are too many variables to evaluate to then build a baseline to quantify for all set-up's. .
Bore size, barrel length, barrel window size, barrel window palcement, barrel material, buckings, air nozzles, and on and on.
The characteristics of what the bb does insinde of an inner barrel can be effected by all the above.

It is considered already from barrel wear and ink/dye tests that the bb tends to ride along the top of the barrel.
At what point the bb sustains its rise is uncertain and this could very well be altered completely as the evolution of the Hop-up and inner barrel continues. It is universally proven that a quality barrel provides better consistecy in the bb flight path but that is more due to smoothness and consistency of bore material than bore size or length.

Let's Not Forget:
All this has supposedly already been done and on film as a record a while back.
It has all been kept top secret for no reason at all and only the airsoft self appointed hierarchy have seen it.
They also like to make sure that we know this has been done, but that no one can see it as actual proof or evidence.
These guys need to show their hand or fold their cards and call thier bluff.

Also:
The price seems out of scale for all of this.
I am sure there are more options and better cost effective options for the same amount of money.

#3 MultipleParadox

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 02:45 PM

Hum where does it say there's going to be only 1 day of testing?

I don't know these guys personally but having seen where they're from and where they're going, I'm pretty sure they're serious about this and will deliver great, usable data to the community. This is all assumptions of course, but let's say I put some faith in their project.

If you've followed this you know that they ordrered/paid/received their clear barrels already; "all" they need is some high speed cameras, and strobes... and that's the expensive stuff, even when rented.

What you say about BB behavior is "known to be true", but in my knowledge nobody have factual data. That's the hole they want to plug.

And about that "airsoft hierarchy hiding their data" you mention, I'm sorry but with all due respect I had a little laugh there... Doesn't that sound a bit conspiratonist to you? If anyone have this kind of data it's the barrel manufacturers... ;)

#4 gcw360

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 03:04 PM

Before this gets off track, let's be very clear here. Until any data is actually produced it is speculative at best as to whether that data is good or not.  That said, my opinion is they they are looking to answer some significant questions.  That's a good thing.  Rational and scientific method aside, I'm interested.  Whether or not they get to their goal and "prove" anything is in doubt because one study proves nothing unless they are attempting to reproduce someone's results. It does however open the door to further testing and discussion which, again, is a good thing.

So with that said, let's not start a argument before the tests even get started.

Here's a cautionary note, these Forums are not here for the selling or the exchange of funds. Period.  The fact that the video requests funds for any reason is of concern to me.  I will keep the thread open for now because I believe the intention to be ligament.

#5 vanevery

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 04:57 PM

View PostMultipleParadox, on 25 October 2012 - 02:45 PM, said:

Hum where does it say there's going to be only 1 day of testing?

At the 2:31 mark, Brent Lucas states that the money will allow them to rent this camera for a day or two and should get three days of material out of that time period.

View PostMultipleParadox, on 25 October 2012 - 02:45 PM, said:

I don't know these guys personally but having seen where they're from and where they're going, I'm pretty sure they're serious about this and will deliver great, usable data to the community. This is all assumptions of course, but let's say I put some faith in their project.
I am sure they are serious as well and I support their efforts and encourage anyone who has the know how to pursue all the scientific and non-scientific testing they can. I have some ????? about their approach as far as testing methods, conditions, and materials. I don't question their intentions. I applaud them for trying to put this together.

I gotta tell you, though.
It bugs me that a business is asking for donations to pull this off.
This is a business and the overhead for the project is not that much.
$3500 and only $2500 covers actual over-head.
I know that is still some money out of pocket, but does not someone at BB Bastard have a credit card, or two?
I would be more willing to donate money if they were actually going to buy the said $125,000 camera system.
I would also guess the company can write off some or all of the expense for tax purposes.
Maybe Canada is different than the US in that respect.
Wouldn't getting sponsership by an airsoft manufacturer be better?

View PostMultipleParadox, on 25 October 2012 - 02:45 PM, said:

If you've followed this you know that they ordrered/paid/received their clear barrels already; "all" they need is some high speed cameras, and strobes... and that's the expensive stuff, even when rented.
There are questions raised by some in the airsoft community about Pyrex as the best choice of clear material and then questions about the real benefit of submerging the barrel in water. This is not my field of expertise so I am just relaying the info, not making statements on this point.

View PostMultipleParadox, on 25 October 2012 - 02:45 PM, said:

What you say about BB behavior is "known to be true", but in my knowledge nobody have factual data. That's the hole they want to plug.
Completely true.

View PostMultipleParadox, on 25 October 2012 - 02:45 PM, said:

And about that "airsoft hierarchy hiding their data" you mention, I'm sorry but with all due respect I had a little laugh there... Doesn't that sound a bit conspiratonist to you? If anyone have this kind of data it's the barrel manufacturers... ;)

This subject has been covered over and over on ASM (airsoftmechanics.com).
The "self appointed hierarchy" relates to some individuals who frequent that forum.
This has nothing to with BB Bastard or airsoft above the border.

Edited by vanevery, 25 October 2012 - 04:58 PM.


#6 MultipleParadox

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 05:44 PM

You are bringing very good points, both.

I wasn't aware of the 1-2 day equipment rental, I wasn't fully focused on the video when I watched it.

That being said, I have to say I'm a bit disapointed by this now. I just hope that good will come out of this regardless, no matter what good it is, as long as it's factual.

As for the funding part of it, appologies if it looks like this thread is about asking for funds or encourageing to donate, as it was never my intentions. I just wanted to bring this on the table so that most people are aware that there are more research and dev going into airsoft.

After rereading my last post, I also would like to state that english is a second language to me, and if my posts looked to be somewhat harsh or disrepectful, I want to apologize about that as needed, since again it was not on intent.

Happy airsofting to all :D

#7 gcw360

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 06:27 PM

View PostMultipleParadox, on 25 October 2012 - 05:44 PM, said:

You are bringing very good points, both.

I wasn't aware of the 1-2 day equipment rental, I wasn't fully focused on the video when I watched it.

That being said, I have to say I'm a bit disapointed by this now. I just hope that good will come out of this regardless, no matter what good it is, as long as it's factual.

As for the funding part of it, appologies if it looks like this thread is about asking for funds or encourageing to donate, as it was never my intentions. I just wanted to bring this on the table so that most people are aware that there are more research and dev going into airsoft.

After rereading my last post, I also would like to state that english is a second language to me, and if my posts looked to be somewhat harsh or disrepectful, I want to apologize about that as needed, since again it was not on intent.

Happy airsofting to all :D
For the record, I found no disrespect in your post. This, being a Community Forum, is meant for open discussion.  As a moderator, it is my job to call out issues when I see them.

We are all good here, it's all fine.  Lets see what BB Bastard comes up with for results if they can manage that.

#8 vanevery

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 11:51 AM

View PostMultipleParadox, on 25 October 2012 - 05:44 PM, said:

You are bringing very good points, both.

I wasn't aware of the 1-2 day equipment rental, I wasn't fully focused on the video when I watched it.

That being said, I have to say I'm a bit disapointed by this now. I just hope that good will come out of this regardless, no matter what good it is, as long as it's factual.

As for the funding part of it, appologies if it looks like this thread is about asking for funds or encourageing to donate, as it was never my intentions. I just wanted to bring this on the table so that most people are aware that there are more research and dev going into airsoft.

After rereading my last post, I also would like to state that english is a second language to me, and if my posts looked to be somewhat harsh or disrepectful, I want to apologize about that as needed, since again it was not on intent.

Happy airsofting to all :D

I am not coming at you, man.
I am direct in the way I talk and way over analytical at times.
You certainly have no reason to apologize for anything.
I am glad you brought this subject up and was wondering when this subject would make its way over to this forum.

Just to be clear.
I support BB Bastard's efforts and like what they are attempting to do.
I do not support BB Bastards effort to collect donations from the airsoft community for this project.
BB Bastard is a business and has all the avenues and advantages that businesses have in raising capital.
I am not bashing BB Bastard for this.
I am simply stating the academic way I see it.

I do hope this project sees the light of day and do believe there can and will be valuable info to be gained.
I hope you- MuiltpleParadox- keep this forum posted as to the progress.and status of this project.

Edited by vanevery, 26 October 2012 - 11:57 AM.





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