Jump to content


Heat gun on delta ring


  • Please log in to reply
26 replies to this topic

#1 grumpy

grumpy

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 19 posts
  • Country:

Posted 30 September 2012 - 06:51 AM

I may have over lubed my LM4, and need to properly clean those parts, so I bought an armorer's wrench to remove the delta ring.
As per the previous posts, I understand that I need to heat up the delta ring to soften the locktite. I will be using a heat gun, but before I do this, wouldn't this damage any parts inside, like the rubbers and the inner barrel? Any tips on how long to heat it up and where to concentrate the heat?

#2 akiraspeedstar

akiraspeedstar

    Guru

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,130 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Country:

Posted 30 September 2012 - 07:13 AM

You don't need to heat it very much and the risk of damaging parts is there but not likely unless you REALLY heat it. I used only a hair dryer and then the armorers wrench and it came off without too much of a struggle.

#3 Chuck S

Chuck S

    Guru

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,304 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cleveland, Ohio
  • Country:

Posted 30 September 2012 - 07:21 AM

I assume you mean the barrel nut, not the handguard slip ring (delta ring) which you push back with finger pressure?

A heat gun at high settings will certainly melt plastic and rubber parts so start low.  A hair dryer may be a safer choice.

-- Chuck

#4 Outlaw1995

Outlaw1995

    Guru

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,713 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Acting, Piano, Films, Theatre, Firearms, Knives, Airsoft
  • Country:

Posted 30 September 2012 - 07:42 AM

I've been told that there isn't any loctite on the LM4's barrel nut (delta ring). When turning be sure to secure your receiver in a vice, with the vice holding onto the two points of contact that lock into the lower receiver with the pins going through them. Securing the upper receiver's body to the vice will crack and break your upper receiver when attempting to turn the delta ring with your wrench. (Happened to me)

I was able to turn the delta ring with my ar wrench without any heat applied. Just be sure to secure the right spot of the upper into the vice, and you should be good to go.

#5 Chuck S

Chuck S

    Guru

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,304 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cleveland, Ohio
  • Country:

Posted 30 September 2012 - 09:33 AM

What's commonly called the delta ring is the spring loaded handguard slip ring.  No tool required to "turn" it 'cuz you don't.  :)  Just push it to the rear and remove the handguards revealing the barrel nut.

The barrel nut is that castled nut under the handguards you use the barrel wrench or "armorers tool" to turn.  It may be locktited in the LM4 but there's certainly no need for it as the barrel nut is secured by the gas tube in the top notch.  The gas tube is pure decoration, though, and if you decide to not put it back check the barrel nut from time to time to be sure it hasn't loosened or apply a small amount of Blue Locktite.

Not sure how KWA does this in their maintenance shop.  I'd try gripping the upper receiver by hand with a towel and have someone else apply heat and the barrel wrench.

The upper receiver is not monolithic like the M16 so be careful how you secure it.  You can twist the whole receiver apart I imagine.  Standard M16 receiver blocks will not work, the LM4 receiver is larger and the blocks will not close.

The preferred method of removing the barrel nut on the real M4 Carbine is to secure the barrel with barrel blocks, not the receiver.  But airsoft construction is different.  

-- Chuck

Edited by Chuck S, 30 September 2012 - 09:34 AM.


#6 grumpy

grumpy

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 19 posts
  • Country:

Posted 30 September 2012 - 10:43 AM

For my first attempt I used a hair dryer as akiraspeedstar mentioned.

I tried clamping on the upper receiver, but it was not good because if I put enough force it looked like I could destroy that upper. So I took Outlaw1995's advise and put the upper and the lower together and clamped on the point where the front pins are, this seems to be the most secure way of doing it, but I still didn't get the barrel nut off because I backed off immediately as I started to hear these funny creaking noises like something was about to break.

I checked the receiver and no cracks so far, just a lot of scratches with the vice eating through the towels due to all the torquing. And yes, I was turning it counter clockwise.

I may need to call a buddy (or two) to give me a hand at this because like what ChuckS said somebody has to stabilize the receiver, and somebody has to pull the delta ring back and another to put some muscle on the armorer's wrench to get the barrel nut off.

So for those who were able to take this thing off alone, I salute you.

Thank you all for the tips and I shall report back once I finally conquer this newly found archenemy.

#7 grumpy

grumpy

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 19 posts
  • Country:

Posted 30 September 2012 - 11:12 AM

This guy  just rips it off in seconds, skip to 13:09 to see the barrel nut removal. And his vice is not even secured to the table  :notworthy:

Looks like he's using this  http://www.brownells...ER-ACTION-BLOCK



#8 Outlaw1995

Outlaw1995

    Guru

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,713 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Acting, Piano, Films, Theatre, Firearms, Knives, Airsoft
  • Country:

Posted 30 September 2012 - 11:18 AM

KWA uses an action vice to get the barrel nut off.

I've even seen a video where a guy uses a cutting tool to literally CUT the delta ring off... o-O

Sorry for making you type the explanation Chuck, I know the difference between the two, I just wanted to "simplify" the matter. haha

#9 akiraspeedstar

akiraspeedstar

    Guru

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,130 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Country:

Posted 30 September 2012 - 11:31 AM

It unfortunately varies from gun to gun, for example some people had trouble removing their flash hider and my gun needed no heating and no force what so ever.

#10 Chuck S

Chuck S

    Guru

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,304 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cleveland, Ohio
  • Country:

Posted 30 September 2012 - 01:26 PM

The "action block" in the linked video will NOT work with the LM4.  The LM4 receive is a bit different and the block won't close.  Nor will the filler piece that replaces the bolt carrier to prevent twisting or crushing the upper receiver fit.

The receiver block method is not recommended for the M16/AR15 as it puts unnecessary torque on the upper receiver.  But the preferred barrel block method method doesn't look real good for airsoft either!  :)

I've not removed my barrel nut but I assume KWA did last week when they worked on my hop up.

-- Chuck

#11 Raptor72

Raptor72

    Enthusiast

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 189 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Annapolis, MD
  • Country:

Posted 30 September 2012 - 01:29 PM

I used an armorer's wrench and bought a ar15 vice block.  Once the upper was in the vice block I had no worries of damaging anything and barrel nut came off surprisingly easy.  When the receiver is held correctly it does not take a lot of force to remove.  I can also confirm my LM4 had no loctite on it.

#12 grumpy

grumpy

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 19 posts
  • Country:

Posted 30 September 2012 - 01:49 PM

Raptor72 would you have a link for the ar15 vice block you used?

#13 grumpy

grumpy

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 19 posts
  • Country:

Posted 30 September 2012 - 04:41 PM

Too much caffeine has gotten me to look at creative alternatives, I am seriously contemplating what Outlaw1995 said about cutting the delta ring with a dremel knowing that a replacement can easily be had for around $10 compared to buying an upper vice block.

To dremel the delta ring would be easy, I'm sure that it's made of soft pot metal, but what I'm not sure is the composition of the barrel nut, is this also pot metal? Or is it made of steel?

I'll try not to cut all the way to the receiver threads... oh the pains we are willing to go through for the love of this LM4.

#14 dos_Santos

dos_Santos

    Enthusiast

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 175 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Country:

Posted 30 September 2012 - 04:47 PM

Always use the least aggressive procedure when doing any maintenance.  The heat gun is usually necessary.  Remember, righty tighty, lefty loosey...the barrel nut will come off without a dremmel

#15 Outlaw1995

Outlaw1995

    Guru

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,713 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Acting, Piano, Films, Theatre, Firearms, Knives, Airsoft
  • Country:

Posted 30 September 2012 - 04:58 PM

Nota bene: I never recommended cutting the delta ring to get to the barrel nut, I just stated that I saw a guy do this procedure on a REAL ar15 to put a troy industries rail on his... Let me source this video...



Start watching at 9:00 minutes.

I do not recommend doing this procedure..... Just said it because I thought it was funny since it is technically a way of getting the delta ring off.

#16 gcw360

gcw360

    Supreme Guru

  • Super Moderator
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 11,595 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New Jersey
  • Interests:Airsoft (Especially repair and customizing), Fly Fishing, Fossils (Especially Dino), Snakes, Photography
  • Country:

Posted 30 September 2012 - 05:10 PM

The barrel nut is steel and cutting it off really isn't recommended.  A technique that has worked for both Niko and me is to seat the armorer's wrench and then tap the end with a hammer with a short, quick, striking blow.  This breaks the bond, if there is one, and facilitates removal.  You may still need heat, but this technique worked well for me without heat applied.

Hope this helps.

#17 grumpy

grumpy

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 19 posts
  • Country:

Posted 30 September 2012 - 05:38 PM

Yes cutting the delta ring is not uncommon when trying to get to the barrel nut
http://i148.photobuc...ailinstall6.jpg

I was just wondering if I can take it one more notch and proceed in cutting the barrel nut as well, don't worry if I mess this up I have nobody to blame but myself. It may look like a desperate move, because it actually is due to previous failed attempts. But I will keep everybody's tips in mind and sleep on it, hopefully a fresher mind in the morning will dissuade me from this seemingly drastic step.

#18 Outlaw1995

Outlaw1995

    Guru

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,713 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Acting, Piano, Films, Theatre, Firearms, Knives, Airsoft
  • Country:

Posted 30 September 2012 - 05:43 PM

I highly suggest using an AR wrench for this, especially useful having this tool to work on these guns in the future. I think the cutting the delta ring is a last resort.... if anything. Whatever you do, just make sure that you don't twist/ snap the receiver if you use the ar wrench. It will cost a lot more to get that fixed....

#19 grumpy

grumpy

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 19 posts
  • Country:

Posted 30 September 2012 - 06:09 PM

gcw360 thanks for confirming the composition of the barrel nut, that would explain the use of a heat gun has helped some in the removal of the nut which could be due to the micro expansion of the diameter of the steel material occurring faster than the receiver threads which is of aluminum composition.

So heat was an assisting factor not to melt the Loctite (which was confirmed as non-existent) but to expand the barrel nut.

I shall give this another try with a heat gun (initial attempt was with a blow dryer), hopefully I'll be lucky enough to reach a temp that will coerce an expansion without melting parts inside the outer barrel.

#20 Raptor72

Raptor72

    Enthusiast

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 189 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Annapolis, MD
  • Country:

Posted 01 October 2012 - 09:11 AM

Here is the vice I use.

http://www.ebay.com/...984.m1497.l2649




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users