Jump to content


4 mags just don't fill for 2.5 loads?


  • Please log in to reply
22 replies to this topic

#1 Brick Stone

Brick Stone

    Enthusiast

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 87 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Brooklyn, NY
  • Interests:DIY Airsoft. DIY speaker building. Chairsoft(LOL) some other stuff
  • Country:

Posted 07 August 2012 - 06:25 AM

Ok, I've not seen this question yet so I'll ask it now.

I've got 4 Magazines for my  M1911 MK IV PTP.   They all have their o-rings.  

I see people post that from a single filling of green gas, users can get 2.5 loads out of their magazine.
That's 13 to 14 rounds downrange and then refill the mag 2 more times and almost be able to shoot 32 to 35 rounds in total from a single gas fill.

My question is... Are they all lying? Reason I ask is - All four of my mags only will shoot 1.5  loads of .2 gram BB's
I can fire off 13 to 14 rounds... then I fill the mag with rounds and then I only get 5 shots or so and it piddles out.

What's going on? I Can't have 4 bad mags can I?  and how would they even be bad?   They fire great , feed great and I don't detect leakage although I might not be able to detect it.

These have been this way from the start.   when I bought them back in November of 2011.   I really thought nothing of it until I kept hearing 2.5 mags worth of BB"s per single fill is the norm.

I don't think I'm doing it wrong..  I align it perfect vertical, give a couple of 5 second bursts of gas.  1.5 loads

If I try a few more 5 second blasts... Same thing.

Please advise.

Edited by Brick Stone, 07 August 2012 - 06:26 AM.


#2 Outlaw1995

Outlaw1995

    Guru

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,713 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Acting, Piano, Films, Theatre, Firearms, Knives, Airsoft
  • Country:

Posted 07 August 2012 - 01:09 PM

Try charging the magazine for longer, and let it rest a bit so it can get accustom to room/ambient temperature. Also, it may have been a warmer day than you're experiencing when users report these results. I'm assuming you are using green gas correct? So yeah try charging the magazines longer, I usually do 5 second periods, about 3 or 4 times a charge. And remember, let them rest a bit before shooting so you can achieve maximum gas efficiency.

#3 Viet

Viet

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 186 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Country:

Posted 07 August 2012 - 04:31 PM

There are a couple of things that could be affecting your gas efficiency.  The temperature makes a difference too, if it's cooler then more gas will be spent since the gas wont expand as fast.  Also, keep in mind that the M1911 MK series has the smallest gas tank due to the size of the magazine when compared to other PTPs.  Honestly, 1.5 magazines for the MK series is pretty good.  But like I said its not going to be as much when compared to lets say my ATP where I've gotten like 3.5 mags on a fill before.

#4 optimuskmg

optimuskmg

    Enthusiast

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 293 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bridgewater
  • Country:

Posted 07 August 2012 - 04:41 PM

maybe you are shooting too quickly, some people who clock the "bb's per fill" on their guns, do it very unrealistically and they shoot, wait a min. shoot again, and continue like that. which is inaccurate and doesn't make scene because chances are if you are in a game , you may be firing 2-3 times in rapid succession. but, noting that this is not important, that is most likely the reason they get such amazing results, and yours are less than desirable.

#5 Brick Stone

Brick Stone

    Enthusiast

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 87 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Brooklyn, NY
  • Interests:DIY Airsoft. DIY speaker building. Chairsoft(LOL) some other stuff
  • Country:

Posted 07 August 2012 - 06:52 PM

First 2 posts are very helpful... So I'll say thanks for the input and advice and put it into action and report back.   However this last reply is kind of ridiculous from a logical standpoint.


@optimuskmg - I hate to say this but your reply actually is completely incoherent.   I'm not being rude... it's just a fact. Did you even read what you wrote?

First, you say I may be shooting too quickly and categorize me into this fast shooter group. Basically telling me that this way is the wrong way.  
Then you compare that to a slower "shoot and wait scenario of a BB clocker".  But you also then classify me into that group as well.  As someone who is clocking my BB's and categorizing me with the second group of slow "shoot and wait" types in your first part. - Pick one.

You then claim that the latter  "shoot and wait scenario"  is inaccurate.  Thus telling me I'm shooting too quickly, but shooting slow is incorrect and I'm doing both.  

Then you say something nearly opposite and contradictory to the first part of your reply.  

You say that "in game" that I may then be shooting a few times in rapid succession which is actually reclassifying me into the first group of those "firing too fast" yet again.  

Then you state that none of this is even important and basically doesn't matter.   Come on....for real?

The last part you added is diametrically opposing to and basically cancels out your first statements completely.  

Then you claim all this, that now no longer matters, is possibly what adds up to my less than desirable results? -Say What?

How does that even make sense?  Would you care to clarify and/or elaborate? ...On second thought

Again, not being rude....  But your reply is "off the hook" incoherent and really doesn't say anything that makes an ounce of sense.  Thanks but sorry, it's just a fact.   Who can even follow it?

Again thanks to those who recommended some reasonable causes and things to note and then offered sound advice on what to try.

Edited by Brick Stone, 07 August 2012 - 06:59 PM.


#6 Outlaw1995

Outlaw1995

    Guru

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,713 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Acting, Piano, Films, Theatre, Firearms, Knives, Airsoft
  • Country:

Posted 07 August 2012 - 07:08 PM

Let me try to rephrase what optimus may have been trying to say. When you shoot GBB guns, I'm sure you know that the magazine gets colder, due to the gas being released. When the magazine is colder, the gas gets compressed, and the GBB gun won't function as well as it would if it had a fresh, warm magazine in the gun. That being said, optimus was describing what some people do (and it's tedious work!) to test how "gas efficient" their gun really is. They would charge the mag with gas, and shoot really slow, that way, the magazine can warm up a bit to get ready to fire the next shot as consistently as it did the last. So, optimus was trying to say (correct me if I'm wrong) how some people may report so and so results, but that was because they took a longer time to take each follow up shot, meanwhile, some people will experience less gas efficiency if they were to shoot really quickly or full auto.

In any case, try our suggestions and see if there's any difference. :)

#7 Brick Stone

Brick Stone

    Enthusiast

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 87 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Brooklyn, NY
  • Interests:DIY Airsoft. DIY speaker building. Chairsoft(LOL) some other stuff
  • Country:

Posted 07 August 2012 - 08:18 PM

Thanks for looking out for us Newbies Outlaw!

Edited by Brick Stone, 07 August 2012 - 08:19 PM.


#8 optimuskmg

optimuskmg

    Enthusiast

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 293 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bridgewater
  • Country:

Posted 07 August 2012 - 08:30 PM

View PostBrick Stone, on 07 August 2012 - 06:52 PM, said:

First 2 posts are very helpful... So I'll say thanks for the input and advice and put it into action and report back.   However this last reply is kind of ridiculous from a logical standpoint.


@optimuskmg - I hate to say this but your reply actually is completely incoherent.   I'm not being rude... it's just a fact. Did you even read what you wrote?

First, you say I may be shooting too quickly and categorize me into this fast shooter group. Basically telling me that this way is the wrong way.  
Then you compare that to a slower "shoot and wait scenario of a BB clocker".  But you also then classify me into that group as well.  As someone who is clocking my BB's and categorizing me with the second group of slow "shoot and wait" types in your first part. - Pick one.

You then claim that the latter  "shoot and wait scenario"  is inaccurate.  Thus telling me I'm shooting too quickly, but shooting slow is incorrect and I'm doing both.  

Then you say something nearly opposite and contradictory to the first part of your reply.  

You say that "in game" that I may then be shooting a few times in rapid succession which is actually reclassifying me into the first group of those "firing too fast" yet again.  

Then you state that none of this is even important and basically doesn't matter.   Come on....for real?

The last part you added is diametrically opposing to and basically cancels out your first statements completely.  

Then you claim all this, that now no longer matters, is possibly what adds up to my less than desirable results? -Say What?

How does that even make sense?  Would you care to clarify and/or elaborate? ...On second thought

Again, not being rude....  But your reply is "off the hook" incoherent and really doesn't say anything that makes an ounce of sense.  Thanks but sorry, it's just a fact.   Who can even follow it?

Again thanks to those who recommended some reasonable causes and things to note and then offered sound advice on what to try.

first of all. i am not "classifying you" i am simply coming up with an educated guess as to why your results, considering you did not actually post a report on how you came about your results, other than a rough estimate of shots, with no temperature, and no time in between shots, there's only so much i could do.
your negativity was NOT, needed. i was trying to say that the 2.5 bb fills per gas fill you were seeing was probably a person who was shooting the "slow way" i described, where as you where shooting the "fast way" that i described. i also did not say one was was "Wrong" i just said that the fast way is more accurate to how much the gun would actually be shot in a game environment, due to the fact that the faster you shoot, the cooler the magazine becomes, and the less gas efficiency you will receive due to the colder gas not expanding as quickly, this can be explained by the Combined Gas Law which is in reference to both the Charles law of Gas, and the Boyle's Law of gas. feel free to Google it if your still not following me.

to wrap it up, i read it over again, and maybe you read it differently than i did? but what i said made perfect scene. so if you want to ask questions, and nit pick the sh*t out of the answer's you get, be my guest, just be right about what your saying before you publish an essay on it.

#9 Outlaw1995

Outlaw1995

    Guru

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,713 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Acting, Piano, Films, Theatre, Firearms, Knives, Airsoft
  • Country:

Posted 07 August 2012 - 08:39 PM

I think the issue has been resolved, and the unneeded sarcasm has been identified and should be apologized for. Let's just apologize and get back on track? :innocent:

Edited by Outlaw1995, 07 August 2012 - 08:39 PM.


#10 optimuskmg

optimuskmg

    Enthusiast

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 293 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bridgewater
  • Country:

Posted 07 August 2012 - 08:43 PM

Im sorry you could not understand what i was trying to say at first Brickstone.

Edited by optimuskmg, 07 August 2012 - 08:47 PM.


#11 Brick Stone

Brick Stone

    Enthusiast

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 87 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Brooklyn, NY
  • Interests:DIY Airsoft. DIY speaker building. Chairsoft(LOL) some other stuff
  • Country:

Posted 07 August 2012 - 08:56 PM

LOL he apologized...  but didn't show accountability - Which is what was asked.   He apologized that I didn't get it....  Which isn't an apology for his part. Not sure about this guy.

Anyhow, I get the concept.   It was just the way you wrote in your post optimus. I didn't even know really what you were trying to say to me...  I actually went and got my wife to look at it too and neither of us could detect where you were attempting to guide me to as it offered no solution or advice only supposition.  But that clearly stems from me actually NOT typing the essay required and clarifying every step of the process that brought me to the conclusion that I needed advice.  

Looking at it now... Because of the time we've now spent on the subject.   I can see what you attempted to offer.   It wasn't really clear in the way you posted it originally.   I just couldn't tell how you were advising me... or what you thought I was doing wrong. I do now.

Stepping WAY way back.... and looking at it wholly...  Thanks to Outlaw and your reply...  Your post somehow.. and I'm not being sarcastic...   All of a sudden - Became crystal clear.  
I really can't apologize for how I felt at the time of reading it originally because it was kind of hard to make sense of it you look at it from my point of view...   It's all good now though.  

At the advice of the Outlaw.  I will either relegate my findings after trying what was advised to either a new thread or here if it is allowable.

Asking for clarification and noting why and where things were not clear.. and noting frustration - was not me being sarcastic...  If that was implied... I apologize.

Edited by Brick Stone, 07 August 2012 - 09:01 PM.


#12 optimuskmg

optimuskmg

    Enthusiast

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 293 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bridgewater
  • Country:

Posted 07 August 2012 - 09:02 PM

well thats okay i guess. i look forward to seeing your results, i wish i had a mk series PTP so i could run some tests on it. as Viet said before, im spoiled to getting like 3 mags of bb's per fill on my ATP mags. but you should definitely try waiting between shots in a test, and fireing all of the shots quickly, then compare the results, i would love to know what you find. keep up  the good work! :thumbsup:

Also, yeah, you can put your findings right here. nothing wrong with keeping a thread going, as long as its sorta on topic. (i guess someone should tell Dobey)

Edited by optimuskmg, 07 August 2012 - 09:05 PM.


#13 Outlaw1995

Outlaw1995

    Guru

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,713 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Acting, Piano, Films, Theatre, Firearms, Knives, Airsoft
  • Country:

Posted 07 August 2012 - 09:04 PM

^ Good posts, both of you. :) Yeah, certainly you can post findings, I was just trying to get everyone back on friendly terms...

#14 jp6spd

jp6spd

    Enthusiast

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 77 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Country:

Posted 08 August 2012 - 01:22 PM

In response to the original post, I get close to 3 full mags per fill.  I'm shooting both fast bursts and single shots.

#15 optimuskmg

optimuskmg

    Enthusiast

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 293 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bridgewater
  • Country:

Posted 08 August 2012 - 04:59 PM

thats very good, what gas? and rough est. of temp?

#16 Brick Stone

Brick Stone

    Enthusiast

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 87 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Brooklyn, NY
  • Interests:DIY Airsoft. DIY speaker building. Chairsoft(LOL) some other stuff
  • Country:

Posted 09 August 2012 - 06:43 AM

Well, to update... I swapped out all my o-rings. One mag actually gave me 28 shots...  although the 14 additional firings were dry, using just gas, No BB's.
Which leads me to assume that letting them come up to environment temps from the chill they get when filling is crucial. Also, this tells me that possibly, that If I reloaded the magazine with BB's, for the second round of firing.  I possibly would have achieved 2.5 loads or better on that one magazine.

I've yet to be able though to duplicate this with the other magazines and neither with the first one I tested.   On a side note.  
I am wondering if it is due to my green gas cans are getting low on fuel.

While replacing the o-rings, Part 125a on one mag at the base where the feed spring gets held in place was snapped off.   I'm looking into replacing that piece.  The butt plate does hold it in place, but I feel that is a recipe for disaster in the long run and I just may replace the magazine.

To add, I am using moondog's o-rings and they do perform well.   I had a package from a year ago that had just 4 in it still, So I decided to use them.  
I will though replace my supply with the exact same product featured at McMaster Carr -  Part number 9396K102  The price has dropped to $4.93 for a package of 25 o-rings size 002   - That's a lot better than 5$ for 6. I will also be purchasing some Buna-N O-rings and when you guys see me, you can hit me up for some if you need them....  If you need some now  I'll gladly mail you some when I get my order.  FREE

To help with o-ring replacement woes I'll share this:
I've developed a tool that pops them on with ease and doesn't tear them in any way...   It is basically comprised of the long red applicator tip that you can find on any can of WD-40 or Dust-Off canned air. I modified it by cutting away a small portion of the tip leaving it in a half moon shape.   With this tip lightly sanded and rubbed out for smoothness, it easily pops on the o-ring with a simple motion without tearing or poking holds that can happen if a needle or toothpick is used.  Just press down one side, rotate the piece and pop the other side.

I also think that a plastic propane adapter for airsoft use can be modified just slightly and used to simply pop one on as well.

So,   Is my thinking correct?  That near empty green gas cans... will take longer to fill a mag and should I have gone through the process a few more times?

My results on the other 3 mags... One didn't even get 9 shots  another fired 11 times before piddling out. They didn't do this before the o-ring replacement.  I was careful to lubricate the o-ring inside the valve.   So I guess that is where I'm at now.

So even though I did achieve the 2.5 + reloads with one test.   I haven't been able to duplicate that...

Edited by Brick Stone, 09 August 2012 - 07:11 AM.


#17 Outlaw1995

Outlaw1995

    Guru

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,713 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Acting, Piano, Films, Theatre, Firearms, Knives, Airsoft
  • Country:

Posted 09 August 2012 - 08:08 AM

Thanks for offering some free o rings. I'll just probably buy a pack of 25 myself to try em out. And yeah, when your green gas cans get low, you will start losing pressure and will need to buy some new cans. When I get my MK II I'll give it a gas efficiency test myself.

#18 Brick Stone

Brick Stone

    Enthusiast

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 87 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Brooklyn, NY
  • Interests:DIY Airsoft. DIY speaker building. Chairsoft(LOL) some other stuff
  • Country:

Posted 09 August 2012 - 08:49 AM

We should get together and do that... My o-rings will be here tomorrow.  USPS from NJ is really fast.   I ordered 1 pack of 002 Buna-N and 2 packs of the Silicon ones 002 size.   We can compare them and you can see if it is something you'd want to purchase.  I have 001 Buna-N and they are small...too small in fact.

#19 jp6spd

jp6spd

    Enthusiast

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 77 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Country:

Posted 09 August 2012 - 09:32 AM

View Postoptimuskmg, on 08 August 2012 - 04:59 PM, said:

thats very good, what gas? and rough est. of temp?

I'm using king arms gas and the test was done both indoors around 75 degrees and outdoors at about 95 degrees.

#20 Outlaw1995

Outlaw1995

    Guru

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,713 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Acting, Piano, Films, Theatre, Firearms, Knives, Airsoft
  • Country:

Posted 09 August 2012 - 11:49 AM

View PostBrick Stone, on 09 August 2012 - 08:49 AM, said:

We should get together and do that... My o-rings will be here tomorrow.  USPS from NJ is really fast.   I ordered 1 pack of 002 Buna-N and 2 packs of the Silicon ones 002 size.   We can compare them and you can see if it is something you'd want to purchase.  I have 001 Buna-N and they are small...too small in fact.
I'm getting my MK II soon. Give me a pm and we'll talk about meeting up. I've been busy with work lately but I'll find some time. Also, we can see if my MK2 is any more gas efficient than yours. :P LOL




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users