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#1 Cerveza

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 07:05 AM

I might be getting a gun for myself to use in skirmishes along side my son. He's the "rusher" and I'd be more the "you run up there, I'll cover you from back here" guy.

We've been very happy with the KWA DEVGRU and the USP Compact that my son has. So I'd like to stick with the brand.

What I'm thinking of, is a G36C that I can modify a bit. I'd like to go with a longer barrel and perhaps a step up in spring.

KM Head 6.02 TBB at 395mm - would be an increase of 5.8" so a 6" suppressor (barrel extension) would be used
KWA M130 spring - should put the gun around 400 with .25's? I'm thinking of going with .28's or even .30's and would be happy at 350fps with them?
Drum Magazine - gonna rain down the plastic while my son runs underneath my bb shower heh.

Maybe an aftermarket hand guard rail? A little longer but not the super long one I keep seeing with bipods attached. I a little too old to be proning.

If anyone has experience with the above I would really appreciate inputs, positive or negative.

OH, I did have a question regarding the G36C. I had heard that the cylinder supports up to a 363 barrel and that it should be replaced if going beyond that?

Attached File  G36C.jpg   65.25K   17 downloads

#2 JROC311

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 08:49 AM

Unless you just like the look of the g36 I would just get an SR10, throw a spring in and get a box mag if you want.The stock barrel is already great so you won't need to spend any money there.
My son has the g36c and we like it but I can't stand the mags for it. They are just too big. If you are only going to run the drum mag I suppose that doesn't matter as much but if you ever run regular mags, If you got a SR10 instead, then the same ones will work in your SR7.

#3 gcw360

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 09:05 AM

 Cerveza, on 02 February 2012 - 07:05 AM, said:

I might be getting a gun for myself to use in skirmishes along side my son. He's the "rusher" and I'd be more the "you run up there, I'll cover you from back here" guy.

We've been very happy with the KWA DEVGRU and the USP Compact that my son has. So I'd like to stick with the brand.

What I'm thinking of, is a G36C that I can modify a bit. I'd like to go with a longer barrel and perhaps a step up in spring.

KM Head 6.02 TBB at 395mm - would be an increase of 5.8" so a 6" suppressor (barrel extension) would be used
KWA M130 spring - should put the gun around 400 with .25's? I'm thinking of going with .28's or even .30's and would be happy at 350fps with them?
Drum Magazine - gonna rain down the plastic while my son runs underneath my bb shower heh.

Maybe an aftermarket hand guard rail? A little longer but not the super long one I keep seeing with bipods attached. I a little too old to be proning.

If anyone has experience with the above I would really appreciate inputs, positive or negative.

OH, I did have a question regarding the G36C. I had heard that the cylinder supports up to a 363 barrel and that it should be replaced if going beyond that?

G36C.jpg
Star makes a front end conversion that works and Private Parts makes a magwell conversion so you could run M4 type mags (drum or otherwise).  Allizard posted his build with these kits.

#4 Cerveza

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 09:08 AM

Good points, and the SR 10 is an awesome gun.

I just don't want to run the same thing everyone else does. I really want to stick with KWA which severely limits my gun style selection, and if you take out M4's there's pretty much nothing left.

I want to run a drum mag, and could get a magwell conversion for any time I want to run magazines instead. *Thanks for the info gcw360, I was reading that post earlier.

If it weren't for me wanting KWA then I'd probably get the new Ares LMG (Stoner). I've compared the Ares with the KWA and overall the KWA just seems better to me. I love the quick change spring system in the Ares, but everything I read says their internals are suspect.

Though I appreciate the input JROC311, I think the G36 is what I've pretty much settled on. My version will be the 00L (zero zero lima). Get it? G36C00L heh.

*Any inputs on barrel length and cylinder?

Edited by Cerveza, 02 February 2012 - 09:09 AM.


#5 JROC311

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 09:45 AM

Nothing wrong with going with the g36c. It's a nice gun.
As far as the cylinder and barrel length, I've heard you can still use the type 1 cylinder in the g36 with a 395mm barrel. I have not tried it yet but I have my stock 395mm barrel that I am going to put into my son's g36c and test it. I'm just waiting for my chrony that I ordered to get here so I can test the before results first and then test the longer barrel set upand compare. I should have some numbers for the set ups with a KWA130 spring and stock g36c cylinder installed in a week or so.

If you are going to ONLY use the long barrel in yours and you are going to put a spring in it then you could put the .5 cylinder from the RIS in at the same time.

#6 Cerveza

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 10:12 AM

I'll buy you popcorn if you keep me informed :)

I agree that while we're in the gearbox we should do everything we plan on at one time.

Let me follow with this: As I understand it, the type 1 cylinder is for shorter barrels and the type .5 cylinder is for longer barrels. I've heard that somewhere between 395 and 455 is the recommended length for using the .5 cylinder. My question is this - would using a type .5 cylinder on a shorter barrel (say a 247mm) cause any performance issues?

#7 gcw360

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 10:18 AM

Yes, the performance will drop because the bb will be out of the barrel before the piston is at max speed due to the volume of air being pushed.

#8 JROC311

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 10:23 AM

I don't know the answer to that but I read that the km4a1 (395mm barrel) used to come with a type 1 cylinder. I would think it would be the better for both barrel lengths if you wanted to swap barrels from time to time. And the short barrel does make for a very agile gun, so being able to swap back to stock length for smaller fields would be a plus.

I will be sure to post my results for the type 1 cylinder with both length barrels next week sometime. My chrony shows to get here on Tuesday the 7th, so hopefully before next weekend I will have some results for you.

Edited by JROC311, 02 February 2012 - 10:24 AM.


#9 gcw360

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 10:30 AM

FYI, even the M16 used to use the Type 1 cylinder.  It will work for a long barrel just not at the optimum for the barrel length.  I completely agree with JR.  If you are going to swap to shorter barrels, stick with the Type 1.

#10 Cerveza

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 10:55 AM

Just so I'm clear heh...

I still don't know if I have this right. I understand the difference now between the cylinders (thanks gcw) but I'm still not clear on where the change from the Type 1 to the Type .5 cylinder should be?

A G36C comes with a 247mm barrel and a type 1 cylinder. If going to a 395mm barrel should the cylinder remain a type 1 or be changed to a type .5? At what barrel length should the cylinder be changed?

#11 JROC311

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 11:32 AM

My km4ris comes with a 395mm barrel and a .5 cylinder. If you were to use ONLY a 395mm barrel and not switch back to the 247mm g36c barrel you would be fine with going to the type .5. But if you want to switch back and forth, keep the the stock cylinder in.
Like GCW stated, even the 509mm m16 use to come with a type 1, so it should be fine with the 395mm.
Either way I will have some numbers to test next week with both barrels and the stock type 1. I'm also intrested in how it compares and performs with each.

#12 Linz

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 01:19 PM

JR, Look forward to your tests.  I have been thinking about adding a 395 to my G36 as well and am thankful to you for proving the case for it.  Let us know how it goes.

I am having trouble finding the private parts magwell conversion kit has anyone seen them anywhere?  Has anyone tried any other Magwell conversion kits and had success?

Thanks

#13 JROC311

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 01:41 PM

No problem. I'm glad to do it.

Regarding the magwell conversions, I thought about getting one for my sons g36 too but after reading all the mixed reports about feeding issues with all the different brands I decided to just keep using the stock mags. They feed fine and definitely look better. Just sucks getting them in and out of mag pouches.

#14 R_King91303

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 06:07 PM

Funny, I just got a second g36c. My plan for the second one was to convert it to a MG36.

However my plan for the gearbox was to go with a SP95 spring for 2 reasons. #1 I want to be able switch the lowers between the guns so I can also use the G36c for CQB. #2 support weapons put a lot of stress on gearbox shells because of the sustained fire. I figure the softer spring should decrease the odds of premature failure.

(null)

#15 Cerveza

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 04:31 AM

One thing I should have mentioned from the start is that our local field is outdoor only. This gun will solely be used as an outdoor support weapon. And the fields we play on are rather large, so laying down suppression fire at distance is what I'm trying to achieve.

That's why I want to get a drum mag and better distance. I'm not trying to make a G36DMR or something. I don't care much for DMR guys, but that's for another post.

#1 would be the ability to sustain fire. RPS isn't important here, just the ability to maintain fire down range. KWA internals should be able to support sustained short bursts?
#2 would be distance. Provide covering fire at targets which will likely be > 100 feet away. Spring up to a M130?
#3 would be accuracy, and it's not *that* critical. As long as I can hit the obsticals that the opposing force is using it should be enough to keep their heads down. Longer tb barrel (395) with 6" mock suppressor?

This will sound a little weird with #1 - I plan on a 9.6/1600 nunchuck style battery. I want something that I can remove in the field and my son can use if his battery goes low.

I really appreciate the feedback so far, great info. I'm anxiously awaiting JR's results with his modifications.

*Wow, I've been reading a lot about barrel length and the general concensus is that length <> accuracy. (That's not equal). I had always thought that the longer the barrel, the more accurate the gun. From what I've been reading that's not true at all. The bore size and quality of the barrel are the determining factors in accuracy. If that's the case, then a 6.01 EDGI might be the way to go and keep the gun stock length. Thoughts?

Edited by Cerveza, 03 February 2012 - 04:54 AM.


#16 R_King91303

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 07:01 AM

I myself was planning on
going with stock diameter inner barrels. My personal thoughts are that with a TB you increase the odds (no matter how minuscule it is) of a jam, with the large volume ammo dumps that support weapons tend to encourage you are only increasing the chances of a possible jam. If I we're to go with a TB I wouldnt go smaller than 6.03.

(null)

#17 gcw360

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 04:13 PM

I once dumped 5000 rounds through my EdGI 6.01on my M4A1.....no jams.  It's about good ammo too.  I think you will like the EdGI 6.01 for your gun they are quite nice.

#18 JROC311

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 07:26 PM

I received my chrono today and tested both barrels using .20 golden balls with the hop up off.
Here is what I have so far with the kwa m130 spring.

Stock barrel: 415-425 fps

stock ris
395mm barrel: 405-415 fps

So the longer barrel seems to have lost about 10 fps. Not sure if this is from the type 1 cylinder or not.
I am having some compression issues from I believe the nozzle. The fps was not that consistent with a ~10fps difference from shot to shot that seemed to just keep alternating high/low/high/low that I think is a slight misalignment of the gearbox that is causing the nozzle to not seat right against the bucking every time.
Even with the compression issue there was about a 10fps average difference from barrel to barrel with the 247mm barrel shooting harder.

I have not tested accuracy yet as it got dark on me. I will test that tomorrow and test the stock barrel again fps wise.

#19 gcw360

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 08:58 PM

I would have expect an increase.  When I recently swapped an M4 length barrel in an SR 7 the FPS climbed by about 20 FPS or so.

#20 Linz

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 05:30 AM

Thanks JR for giving us an update.  I will be interested in your distance / accuracy results.  In regards to your FPS issues I had something similar and found that my bucking did not have as good as seal on my new barrel and must have been losing air.  Changed out my bucking and used Niko's lick application and problem solved.




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