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Atp On Propane?


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#1 ransackedsnake7

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 05:26 PM

i was wondering why you should not use propane in your gun im not going to be using it because i hate the smell but my friends use propane in their KWA pistols and i tell them their going to ruin their guns but they dont listen, so is there a reason besides the smell that you should not use propane in KWA's

#2 bid2630

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 05:46 PM

You may find reading the most recent discussion of propane on this thread useful.

http://kwausa.com/fo...h=1

#3 niko_gpsy

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 05:47 PM

It seems that straight propane causes a harder cycling that places excessive stress on the moving parts. This will cause excessive wear and premature breakage. It seems that one of the first part to break is the cylinder. Not to mention it also leaves some weird gunk in your gun that can gum up things.

#4 ransackedsnake7

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 05:57 PM

thanks ill tell them this

#5 slips73

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 06:32 PM

actually doesn't read the real facts ive used propane for many years and not have any issues...you dont see any gunk in propane torches etc? why would there be gunk on your gun? ive never seen any, also the "execessive pressure" would maybe be the difference of your gun lasting 5 years or on propane 4 years and 11 months...and you save hundreds of dollars in the long run...think about it

#6 Guest_Allizard_*

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 07:26 PM

Slips..... your personal experience dose not necessary see the entire picture from a manufacturer point of view.

Here is what we know.

1. Propane is Odorless.
2. Propane bottling are processed differently from city to city, county to county, state to state. Which means the additive to add the SMELL/Odor could be different from various location.  Some of them we have found to be corrosive.
3. We have documented hundred cases of failed gas guns that have gunk inside the gun.  
4. You don't see gunk on Propane torches because it's been BURNED off.  There is no burning when using propane with gas gun.  

So does propane work on gas gun?  Sure dose.   Is it safe?  That depends where the bottles are coming from.  I have seen it works and I have seen it completely fail the gun.  I can't stop anyone from using Propane if they decided to take the risk.  But for KWA to honor the warranty, we ask user to stay with Green Gas for the first 45 days.

#7 niko_gpsy

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 07:46 PM

View Postslips73, on 10 January 2012 - 06:32 PM, said:

actually doesn't read the real facts ive used propane for many years and not have any issues...you dont see any gunk in propane torches etc? why would there be gunk on your gun? ive never seen any, also the "execessive pressure" would maybe be the difference of your gun lasting 5 years or on propane 4 years and 11 months...and you save hundreds of dollars in the long run...think about it

But you mayl also spend hundreds in repairs from using propane............

#8 slips73

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 10:22 PM

One, you will not spend hundreds of dollars in repairs as these are not real guns henceforth parts are cheaper. Secondly  the chemical formula on the side of green gas cans CH2FCF3CH3, is not actually a stable compound and not what's in the can. So how can you state that green gas is the same or different from propane? No whats actually in the can is propane(C3H8) UNscented (as it is imported and does not meet american safety standards, like the UNsafe canister it is contained in) and added lubricant for your gun, as for the gunk that would be caused by over oiling and the leftover gas mixing with the built up grease and oil. And the small difference in psi will make no difference in the lifespan of your gun and buying propane will save you money, people really just need to read the facts, not what companies selling the products state as TRUE only to make money.

This is not based of personal experience, this is fact^^^^^^

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 11:46 PM

For the record, I am not saying Green Gas is not the same as propane.   It does contain same or similar properties as Propane.  However,  we do see gunk or residue left in the guns and the common denominator is they all have been doing propane.  This is the reason why we request user to use Green gas at least for the remaining 45 days warranty.  After that, use whatever you feel like.

#10 slips73

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Posted 11 January 2012 - 07:14 PM

http://www.arniesair...<br /> <br /> a little more insight

#11 niko_gpsy

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Posted 11 January 2012 - 08:31 PM

I don't think we were saying that green gas was not propane based. We were simply pointing out that it was the additives and differences in psi in commercial propane that caused problems.
I would tell you right now that if I can get propane without these "additives" and all I had to do was just add silicone oil, I would use it too. But this is not the case.

#12 Zulu88

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 06:12 PM

i personally think that if you are going to use green gas then it will decrease the amount of cleaning and lubricating you will have to perform and if you decide to use propane (like i do) you just have to have experience with gas guns and know what you are doing like where you have to lubricate parts and to take them apart and clean ALOT more than you would with green gas. I would use green gas but because of how much money I have and will save using propane and the availability of the product u can buy it almost anywhere (big 5, sport chalet, general stores, some gas stations) it is just more convenient for me.

#13 niko_gpsy

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 06:52 AM

After the 45 days warranty has expired, you can use any gas you choose but KWA has compiled reports that says propane prematurely breaks KWA GBB guns.  I completely understand that some areas that you live may not have readily available supply of green gas and that it will seem expensive but let's be clear that KWA does not recommend use of commercial purposed propane in their KWA GBB products.

#14 BabyThor

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 07:47 PM

Somewhat of a necro-post, but I figured I should add what I found. While browsing the Airsoft Innovations website (great company, btw), I found this: http://www.airsoft-i...een-gas-propane. It appears as though the founder of Airsoft Innovations has done extensive research concerning the green gas vs. propane conflict, even going so far as using a mass spectrometer. He has concluded that it's safe. However, that doesn't mean we get to berate KWA for voiding warranty if we use propane in their guns. This isn't some corporate scheme to make us spend more money, they are simply encouraging us to use the tried and true gas. In the end, it means that they are trying to keep their guns working properly and protect us from hassle.

Personally, I use propane because I don't like paying three times the price for half the amount of gas. However, my gun is also out of warranty, so I have nothing to worry about, and honestly, I think that even if your gun did break because of the propane (which I don't think would happen), the money you saved would offset the repair costs completely. I suppose if a person wasn't aware of the correct ratio of propane to silicon, propane could become less reliable, but if you know what you are doing it's fine. It's the same stuff. Mass spectrometers don't lie. KWA is just trying to protect us from ourselves, which I think is perfectly fine.

#15 jpip

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 02:28 AM

View PostBabyThor, on 15 February 2012 - 07:47 PM, said:

Somewhat of a necro-post, but I figured I should add what I found. While browsing the Airsoft Innovations website (great company, btw), I found this: http://www.airsoft-i...een-gas-propane. It appears as though the founder of Airsoft Innovations has done extensive research concerning the green gas vs. propane conflict, even going so far as using a mass spectrometer. He has concluded that it's safe. However, that doesn't mean we get to berate KWA for voiding warranty if we use propane in their guns. This isn't some corporate scheme to make us spend more money, they are simply encouraging us to use the tried and true gas. In the end, it means that they are trying to keep their guns working properly and protect us from hassle.

Personally, I use propane because I don't like paying three times the price for half the amount of gas. However, my gun is also out of warranty, so I have nothing to worry about, and honestly, I think that even if your gun did break because of the propane (which I don't think would happen), the money you saved would offset the repair costs completely. I suppose if a person wasn't aware of the correct ratio of propane to silicon, propane could become less reliable, but if you know what you are doing it's fine. It's the same stuff. Mass spectrometers don't lie. KWA is just trying to protect us from ourselves, which I think is perfectly fine.

How much silicon oil do you add and how often? How long have you been using propane? Lastly, have you encountered the gunk it supposedly leaves inside the gun?

#16 BabyThor

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 11:00 PM

View Postjpip, on 16 February 2012 - 02:28 AM, said:


How much silicon oil do you add and how often? How long have you been using propane? Lastly, have you encountered the gunk it supposedly leaves inside the gun?
Since MP9 magazines are rather large, I do two drops every 4-5 fills, but you could get away with more if you used a pistol. You kinda have to do it by feel; if your gun is spraying silicone, you've got to much, and if it looks dry you need more.  Eventually you find the right ratio.  As for the gunk, no, I have not encountered it, but maybe I just don't airsoft enough xD. Your gun will get dirty using any gas, so you just have to perform regular maintenance and you should be fine.

#17 jpip

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 02:18 AM

View PostBabyThor, on 16 February 2012 - 11:00 PM, said:

Since MP9 magazines are rather large, I do two drops every 4-5 fills, but you could get away with more if you used a pistol. You kinda have to do it by feel; if your gun is spraying silicone, you've got to much, and if it looks dry you need more.  Eventually you find the right ratio.  As for the gunk, no, I have not encountered it, but maybe I just don't airsoft enough xD. Your gun will get dirty using any gas, so you just have to perform regular maintenance and you should be fine.

Yeah, the whole propane vs. green gas is really interesting to me. I'm using green gas, but I'm also just starting my warranty period. I just can't see continuing to buy this stuff though.

#18 Zulu88

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 05:14 PM

View Postjpip, on 16 February 2012 - 02:28 AM, said:


How much silicon oil do you add and how often? How long have you been using propane? Lastly, have you encountered the gunk it supposedly leaves inside the gun?
I add a couple drops in mine and i have not encountered any "gunk". that may be because somebody was using a different type of propane instead of the coleman or worthington regular camping propane.

#19 niko_gpsy

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 06:33 AM

I have found that there is no way of quantitatively measuring the exact amount of silicone oil in straight propane.  You add a few drops and most of this oil is in your first fill.  I guess this would really depend on the type of adaptor you have but one of the most popular one being the Airsoft Innovations where you add a couple of drops of oil in the neck of the propane tank.
I have shot about 600 rounds through my ATP using propane and at first few mags you don't really notice much difference other than shooting out a lot of oil from the first fill after oil is added to the propane. The other thing I noticed is that the guns starts to not cycle properly and the mag/gun cool down is much more rapid and severe.  If I rapid fire 2 mags using propane, I noticed frost on the mag and gun which is something I did not notice as much with green gas.  At this point the guns would literally lock up (or freeze up) and no lubrication is evident.
And although my gun did not break after 600 rounds and propane was ok (as long as you don't rapid fire 2 mags worth) I would stick with green gas just by the dependability factor alone.  YMMV.

And if you are feel strongly about using propane I would like to suggest that you use a 10wt silicone oil you can find at a hobby store.  The ones you get that comes with the adaptors (mine did) is just too thin and most the oil goes in your first mag fill.
I am not supporting the use of straight propane but if you had to this change should help a bit.

#20 greatwatermelon

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 04:02 PM

Not sure why I have to keep pointing this out... Many of you guys do not question your sources. Before some of you make seemingly solid conclusions on the "research" and "resources" you are coming up with, the idea of green gas = propane, and all the glitter with it, comes from Airsoft Innovation itself.

An "independent" research paid for by a company that wants to make bank off of propane adapters... Then spam Wikipedia for all people who didn't listen to their high school teachers tell them that Wiki isn't a reliable source. Let alone your trusty friend who probably read Wiki or AI as well.

If propane adapters had something to do human health, like medications do in the pharmaceutical industry, I'm pretty sure other independent lab tests would have followed Airsoft Innovations and probably come up with a different conclusion. However, no one, certainly not me, is going to pay a stack of bills just to get some lab tests done and analyzed...

Frankly, I think Airsoft Innovations marketing was extremely successful. Since the batches of green gas cans in the past years have contained propane additives, it's quite clever to advertise green gas = propane, save your bucks by buying (our) propane adapter. Who would question that while slapping an "independent" lab tests on the table. Disproving their statement and results takes $$$, time, and social media campaigns. On top of that, what are the chances of a few going against the sheep chanting "green gas = propane; propane = green gas," very slim, as if that would even be effective.

Continuing off of Niko's thought,

Just be cautious with using propane and know that you will have to experiment and take risks when using propane.




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