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Systema Magnum verses stock KWA


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#21 Guest_allizard_*

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Posted 08 November 2008 - 10:20 PM

Please keep an open mind when you read my reply below.  

First, I do appreciate your efforts to post findings with various spring result using a systema motor.  I too have gone through the same path 3-4 years ago trying to achieve the highest FPS out put on the airsoft gun using Systema drop in gearboxes.  After spending thousands of dollars and so much time spend on the projects I have come to conclusion that airsoft game is actually more enjoyable when you keep the gun relatively simple.

On the other hand, as KWA we need to promote and provide a SAFE and ENJOYABLE experience with our products.  Safe is being a 1st priority in airsoft as a sport.  

To be perfectly honest,  I DID frown on your report not because about your effort.  I am just trying to imagine myself what would it FELT like getting hit with a 500 fps .25g and 30+ rps.  If it's out door over 200 feet I'll probably won't complain much.  However, at closer range it would be too close to comfort.   I guess you can call me having a lack of faith in humanity.  Because I really don't believe MOST of our children have the ability to excerise caution.   A perfect example like today I was playing and standing in a shade waiting for respawn.  I don't even have a gun in my hand and a kid shot me in the back.  At about 40 feet, full auto.  He would have just ask or at least surrender me.   But he choose to pull the trigger instead.    Good thing is I'm a relatively easy going person.  So I just turn around and said.. "ouch.... I'm already out.  Next time please try to surrender someone when it's close range"  Imagine if one of those snotty kid that got hit and temper flares.   Doesn't make the game enjoyable at all.

You can probably argue that "Well we are all adult and we exercise cautions.  That's well and good.  But this is after all... a public forum.  All ages comes here for information.  I just thought that we should all be a better role model.  

To borrow a quote from Spiderman "With great power comes great responsibility. ..." It's even more true with airsoft guns.  Especially when you are pointing the muzzle at another person.

#22 apollolanding

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Posted 09 November 2008 - 06:47 AM

One of the main reasons I bought my KWA was that the internals could "handle" upgrading, higher ROF and more FPS.  Now that I'm getting into airsoft more and more, my desire for anything other than a consistant 400 fps with .25s has waned.  After a trip to my local airsmith/guru, my gearbox is back in business with some additional reinforcement and it's right up there with Systema drop-ins.  Compression is absolutely crazy!  Being a M4-TAC I see it as a medium range weapon where accuracy is more important than ROF of FPS.  Other than the semi-tightbore Systema 455mm inner (with Blackside to cover extra length) that's going on it this week, I'm done upgrading.  I'm just going to replace parts as they wear and at 400fps, they won't wear quickly.

Would I like to build a 500+ fps counter sniper weapon?  Absolutely!!! The data provided in this thread will help that cause when the time comes.  But this will be a limited use weapon for 100+ feet engagements and the low use will help prolong the internals.  We're not in the Philipines.  US communities need little excuse or encouragement to restrict or eliminate this game.  When you purchase any firearm you aren't just buying a gun.  You're buying into the stewardship of shooting sports.  Blackssr, I'm not lecturing you.  Your very interest in the research shows you're no newbie.  Your posts are just words, data.  It's the actions of irresponsible people who hurt shooting sports.  Whether it's pre-teens popping each other in the backyard with no protection or the police officer from near where I live who not only discharged his sidearm in HQ but fired a 7.62 NATO round that left the range and went through the side of a house in a nearby development.  The anti-gun furvor that one irresponsible individual stirred up in the coffe shops, newspapers and talk radio was crazy!  Add in the wave of people robbing gas stations and convienence stores with airsoft pistols and you can see why airsoft communities get "gun shy" at anybody who tests the limits.  Since this is a forum dedicated to specific weapons and not airsoft play in general, keep up the great work.  Just don't shoot me with one of those combos ;-)

#23 Guest_allizard_*

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Posted 09 November 2008 - 09:35 PM

In the past I didn't want to talked about performance upgrade on this forum because I have no expectation what type of players will be reading the forum and the information maybe misused or misrepresent.  I was planning to put a BIG disclaimer on Blackssr post that the information is NOT for newbie and use as your own risk along with the standard verbiage to covered KWA liability.  However, I think this is turning into a great discussion and I like to see if we can expand it into a modder's only forum with some stipulation.  I'll get back to you guys after I discuss with the folks at KWA.

#24 triple b

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Posted 10 November 2008 - 04:31 PM

since were on the topic of modding ....I have a kwa and and my friend also has the kwa m4. We both are running a guarder sp130 spring and both have about 40,000 or so bbs run thru our guns AND WE BOTH HAVE CRACKED GEARBOXES IN THE SAME PLACE its not a coincidence we both have lipos ......just a warning to those out there who think the KWA is indestructible...

Edited by triple b, 10 November 2008 - 04:35 PM.


#25 vic_man4

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Posted 10 November 2008 - 06:18 PM

View Postapollolanding, on Nov 9 2008, 06:47 AM, said:

One of the main reasons I bought my KWA was that the internals could "handle" upgrading, higher ROF and more FPS.  Now that I'm getting into airsoft more and more, my desire for anything other than a consistant 400 fps with .25s has waned.  After a trip to my local airsmith/guru, my gearbox is back in business with some additional reinforcement and it's right up there with Systema drop-ins.  Compression is absolutely crazy!  Being a M4-TAC I see it as a medium range weapon where accuracy is more important than ROF of FPS.  Other than the semi-tightbore Systema 455mm inner (with Blackside to cover extra length) that's going on it this week, I'm done upgrading.  I'm just going to replace parts as they wear and at 400fps, they won't wear quickly.

Would I like to build a 500+ fps counter sniper weapon?  Absolutely!!! The data provided in this thread will help that cause when the time comes.  But this will be a limited use weapon for 100+ feet engagements and the low use will help prolong the internals.  We're not in the Philipines.  US communities need little excuse or encouragement to restrict or eliminate this game.  When you purchase any firearm you aren't just buying a gun.  You're buying into the stewardship of shooting sports.  Blackssr, I'm not lecturing you.  Your very interest in the research shows you're no newbie.  Your posts are just words, data.  It's the actions of irresponsible people who hurt shooting sports.  Whether it's pre-teens popping each other in the backyard with no protection or the police officer from near where I live who not only discharged his sidearm in HQ but fired a 7.62 NATO round that left the range and went through the side of a house in a nearby development.  The anti-gun furvor that one irresponsible individual stirred up in the coffe shops, newspapers and talk radio was crazy!  Add in the wave of people robbing gas stations and convienence stores with airsoft pistols and you can see why airsoft communities get "gun shy" at anybody who tests the limits.  Since this is a forum dedicated to specific weapons and not airsoft play in general, keep up the great work.  Just don't shoot me with one of those combos ;-)

Agreed with you and Allizard. Look at me, I live in Canada and have to put up with Canadian restrictions and clear guns only. I have a importer who brings mine in semi-legally, but Im a fortinant one though, cause I found this guy to do it. Others have they're JG's and TM's that are circulating around since the law came about because of idiots playing in forests and other prohibited areas. I can't even shoot in my own backyard, I have to wait until our weekly meetings to do some range shooting. Anyways, when new stuff comes out I have to wait a long time to get it and it costs me my right arm :(

I only want a high ROF gun for CQB (300-350fps) for the few compititions in Canada.

Edited by vic_man4, 10 November 2008 - 06:20 PM.


#26 apollolanding

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Posted 13 November 2008 - 10:30 AM

View Posttriple b, on Nov 10 2008, 07:31 PM, said:

We both are running a guarder sp130 spring and both have about 40,000 or so bbs run thru our guns AND WE BOTH HAVE CRACKED GEARBOXES IN THE SAME PLACE its not a coincidence we both have lipos ......just a warning to those out there who think the KWA is indestructible...

After my gearbox repair, I tried a 130 spring for about 2 hours ;-)  I decided to go back to a 110 and spare my gearbox any further stress.

Edited by apollolanding, 13 November 2008 - 10:32 AM.


#27 triple b

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Posted 13 November 2008 - 03:23 PM

sorbo pad here i come but yeah im going to down grade my gun because i want to play with everyone so they can feel my wrath....HAHAHAH

#28 Blacssr@bellsouth.net

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Posted 13 November 2008 - 04:49 PM

View PostBlacssr@bellsouth.net, on Nov 7 2008, 09:18 PM, said:

Update as of November 7, 2008:

I recently upgraded Lipo to 3300mah 40 amp continuous and cut Magnum Motor armature on my RC motor lathe. Cleaned and lubed ball bearings, installed new high performance silver brushes.

New Numbers are as follows:

Systema Magnum:
Guarder150 Spring- .25g- 495 fps- 34 bps. Awesome speed.

I ordered a 160 spring from HK last week. 525/32 should be obtainable.


Hello All.

Update as of November 13, 2008:

Guarder 160 spring arrived at my office today. I had a 1/2 hour or so, so I figured I'd install it and see what kind of numbers this setup would yield.

New Numbers are as follows:

Systema Magnum:

Guarder160 Spring- .25g- 545 fps- 24 bps
. I am a little disappointed in the bps. I believe this issue to be caused by one of the following reasons:

1) The Magnum has finally met its match. I hope not, because I have yet to see a more powerful airsoft motor. If anyone knows of one, please chime in at any time!

2) I need more amps to feed the hungry Magnum. In the next day or two, I will add another Lipo 40c to the mix. I will parallel with the first one. Thus, keeping the voltage the same but feeding the Magnum 80 amps! I hope this yields a higher rate of fire. 24 bps sounds anemic compared to 34 bps. ;-).

I still have a few friends in the RC motor business. I may ship Magnum Armature to them to reverse engineer the thing and have a new armature wound with heavier gauge wire/ double turn to improve torque and top end.  This should improve the Magnums short comings but increase amp draw.

This is all the info I have at this time.

Thanks for the interest.

Mike

#29 Guest_allizard_*

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Posted 13 November 2008 - 05:43 PM

View Posttriple b, on Nov 13 2008, 03:23 PM, said:

sorbo pad here i come but yeah im going to down grade my gun because i want to play with everyone so they can feel my wrath....HAHAHAH

Have you ever seen the padding in the STOCK cylinder head?!   :rolleyes:

#30 kurikobun

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Posted 13 November 2008 - 07:35 PM

View Postallizard, on Nov 13 2008, 06:43 PM, said:

Have you ever seen the padding in the STOCK cylinder head?!   :rolleyes:

So stock padding is a sorbo?

#31 Guest_allizard_*

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Posted 13 November 2008 - 11:09 PM

I can't confirm it's a sorbo... but the look and feel and the thickness is very much like a sorbo.  except the color.

#32 triple b

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Posted 14 November 2008 - 10:06 AM

its hard and stiff black idk but what is it made of .....i know the classic army brass cylinder head i put in as a replacement when my head broke seems to harder than the kwa but at 16.00 why not give it a try..

#33 Stealthmaster14

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Posted 14 November 2008 - 12:48 PM

View PostBlacssr@bellsouth.net, on Nov 13 2008, 05:49 PM, said:

Hello All.

Update as of November 13, 2008:

Guarder 160 spring arrived at my office today. I had a 1/2 hour or so, so I figured I'd install it and see what kind of numbers this setup would yield.

New Numbers are as follows:

Systema Magnum:

Guarder160 Spring- .25g- 545 fps- 24 bps
. I am a little disappointed in the bps. I believe this issue to be caused by one of the following reasons:

1) The Magnum has finally met its match. I hope not, because I have yet to see a more powerful airsoft motor. If anyone knows of one, please chime in at any time!

2) I need more amps to feed the hungry Magnum. In the next day or two, I will add another Lipo 40c to the mix. I will parallel with the first one. Thus, keeping the voltage the same but feeding the Magnum 80 amps! I hope this yields a higher rate of fire. 24 bps sounds anemic compared to 34 bps. ;-).

I still have a few friends in the RC motor business. I may ship Magnum Armature to them to reverse engineer the thing and have a new armature wound with heavier gauge wire/ double turn to improve torque and top end.  This should improve the Magnums short comings but increase amp draw.

This is all the info I have at this time.

Thanks for the interest.

Mike

My E1 G36C doesn't even get that ROF with an Elite 9.6v 1500 battery and it has an M110...........ha ha wow

#34 brooklyn468

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Posted 14 November 2008 - 08:37 PM

View PostStealthmaster14, on Nov 14 2008, 02:48 PM, said:

My E1 G36C doesn't even get that ROF with an Elite 9.6v 1500 battery and it has an M110...........ha ha wow

That is because it is an E1  :lol:

#35 Stealthmaster14

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Posted 14 November 2008 - 08:45 PM

Well yeah I'm not saying it's an amazing gun, I'm just saying that the ROF he's getting with that kind of spring is incredible. lol

Blackssr, I would hate to be one of your fellow airsofters with that kind of firepower.......  ha ha You don't plan to use full auto with that set up in a skirmish do you?

Edited by Stealthmaster14, 14 November 2008 - 08:47 PM.


#36 Blacssr@bellsouth.net

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Posted 15 November 2008 - 11:25 AM

View PostBlacssr@bellsouth.net, on Nov 13 2008, 07:49 PM, said:

Hello All.

Update as of November 13, 2008:

Guarder 160 spring arrived at my office today. I had a 1/2 hour or so, so I figured I'd install it and see what kind of numbers this setup would yield.

New Numbers are as follows:

Systema Magnum:

Guarder160 Spring- .25g- 545 fps- 24 bps
. I am a little disappointed in the bps. I believe this issue to be caused by one of the following reasons:

1) The Magnum has finally met its match. I hope not, because I have yet to see a more powerful airsoft motor. If anyone knows of one, please chime in at any time!

2) I need more amps to feed the hungry Magnum. In the next day or two, I will add another Lipo 40c to the mix. I will parallel with the first one. Thus, keeping the voltage the same but feeding the Magnum 80 amps! I hope this yields a higher rate of fire. 24 bps sounds anemic compared to 34 bps. ;-).

I still have a few friends in the RC motor business. I may ship Magnum Armature to them to reverse engineer the thing and have a new armature wound with heavier gauge wire/ double turn to improve torque and top end.  This should improve the Magnums short comings but increase amp draw.

This is all the info I have at this time.

Thanks for the interest.

Mike


Hello all,

I finally got around to testing with 2 Lipo 40c packs in parallel, This setup will keep the voltage the same while doubling the potential amperage available to the Magnum. I also rewired the entire gun with 14 AWG Teflon wire.( tight fit, but doable) This will decrease any voltage/amperage drop due to smaller AWG wire. The results were encouraging to say the least.

Also:The trigger response was nearly instantaneous due to heavier wire. This was extremely noticeable.

New Numbers are as follows: With 2 Lipo 40C batteries in Parallel with potentially 80 amps constant on tap.

Systema Magnum:

Guarder160 Spring- .25g- 540 fps- 31 bps
. Motor was getting warn, but show no signs of strain after 1000 rounds or so. Brushes look good and no arcing or wear on Armature.

I am quite pleased to see that the Magnum held its own with enough power fed to it. I do believe that I have hit a limit with this setup. I do not think 3 40c cells will improve performance at all because the wire would be the limiter here. All in all, I have learned quite a bit about making a competition level gun with off the shelf parts. It was a fairly expensive journey, but fun just the same. I hope some fellow airsofters can use the information found here to build upon and perhaps find a way to improve on my setup. I would love to here if anyone has ideas to build upon what I have accomplished here today. After all, all great ideas are built upon previous work.


Thanks for interest.


Mike

Edited by Blacssr@bellsouth.net, 15 November 2008 - 02:10 PM.


#37 Blacssr@bellsouth.net

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Posted 15 November 2008 - 11:29 AM

View PostStealthmaster14, on Nov 14 2008, 11:45 PM, said:

Well yeah I'm not saying it's an amazing gun, I'm just saying that the ROF he's getting with that kind of spring is incredible. lol

Blackssr, I would hate to be one of your fellow airsofters with that kind of firepower.......  ha ha You don't plan to use full auto with that set up in a skirmish do you?

I play with five other guys. We are called Team Turbo! The other teams are always trying to keep up with us but usually fall short. I push to the limit constantly. We do play on a large field, full auto, full body armor and adults only! It is sort of like "Fight Club" with Airsoft Guns ;-)

Edited by Blacssr@bellsouth.net, 15 November 2008 - 11:30 AM.


#38 brooklyn468

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Posted 15 November 2008 - 01:38 PM

Sounds fun!

Thanks a lot for the info :)

#39 vic_man4

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Posted 15 November 2008 - 04:37 PM

Good information!

Keep up the good work!

#40 triple b

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Posted 16 November 2008 - 06:48 PM

View PostBlacssr@bellsouth.net, on Nov 15 2008, 11:29 AM, said:

I play with five other guys. We are called Team Turbo! The other teams are always trying to keep up with us but usually fall short. I push to the limit constantly. We do play on a large field, full auto, full body armor and adults only! It is sort of like "Fight Club" with Airsoft Guns ;-)

sounds like paintball.....looks like airsoft needs to get back to its basics. Its a replica sport because u use it in simulations that are mock situations of what might be.....thats airsoft in a nut shell and i feel it should be played that way also not like a "real" life version of call of duty.......just me 2 cents




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