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My KMP9 is not working correctly


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#21 Jeremy314

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 12:58 PM

All that info is important because they can not replicate the problem unless the conditions are as close to the same as when your gun(s) had the issue.

Hollowpoint let's take your example with the tiny bit of info you gave..

'Green Gas' covers several brands, was it Sapient arms, King Arms, Power Green, KWA Green Gas, another company's gas?
Do you always use this gun strictly indoors? If not, did the problem occur indoor or outdoors?

That sort of information is helpful because they now they need to be indoors, with Power Green gas, at a temp of about 60 degrees and use TSD BBs. If they tried to have the problem happen outdoors where it's 75 degrees using KWA green gas, the problem may not ever occur.

This is how it works with any company that produces things. If something goes wrong on the consumer end of the product they need to know as much detail about what happened so they can attempt to replicate the problem. If they just do it in a controlled environment with no parameters that are close to what happened to the consumer, they can not see what causes the problem, why it is a problem, how to try to resolve the problem and other measures to prevent the problem in new products.

#22 HOLLOWPOINT

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 02:34 PM

Ok understandable. But your telling us that none of you have seen these problems prior to releasing the guns to the public ? I mean if you need testers I'll help you so you can get absolute feedback for the products. We use testers and have them test for at least 3 months.  I know from first hand when releasing a product that it needs to be given what most people call a "torture test".  This applies to everything from glass bottles to underground piping.

Both me and my father own a company that custom makes hardcore offroad parts. We specialize in snatchblocks. We make them for civilians and the military. Do you think we will produce a product that fails in less then 24 hours. Weather it's for the civilian or the united states military we cut no corners what so ever. Our products are manufactured in house in the USA. Witch let's us control every little bit of the products we produce and change as needed. And to give the consumer the right to aknowledge a problem and to give that person the right to fix the problem.

I think the problem your company is having is you have no quality control. Because from what I have heard from customers is that your products are top notch. And with a slogan like " engineered to outperform " you need to get with the people you have "engineering" and tell them we have a problem and need to rectify and satisfy these problem.

So in all I hope you fix the problem with this problem.

I little thing I've learned since running a business is , consumers want  quality over quantity. A product that cost a "little" and lasts less is not going to overcome a product that costs "alot" and lasts for a satisfactory amount of time.

#23 BabyThor

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 03:47 PM

View PostRadix, on 01 December 2010 - 11:27 AM, said:

From a manufactures point of view, we need all the information to "accurately" replicate the issues.

At this point, several people have reported this exact same problem (all of us have fairly new if not brand new guns) and several others have also reported unusual wear from the bolt catch that simply should not happen.  All I know is that I feel ripped off.  This thing is not worth 215 dollars.  There needs to be some sort of compensation here, whether it's repairs, a new gun, or a refund.

#24 Guest_Radix_*

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 04:33 PM

View PostBabyThor, on 01 December 2010 - 03:47 PM, said:

At this point, several people have reported this exact same problem (all of us have fairly new if not brand new guns) and several others have also reported unusual wear from the bolt catch that simply should not happen.  All I know is that I feel ripped off.  This thing is not worth 215 dollars.  There needs to be some sort of compensation here, whether it's repairs, a new gun, or a refund.

I'm sorry you feel this way and it is not our intention.  We take pride in our products and services.  We will work with you to address all issues you may be experiencing through warranty service.  Please PM me your contact information so we may start the warranty process.

#25 Guest_allizard_*

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 07:16 PM

@Hollowpoint... let me address a few things here.

1. We test fire every gun before shipping out.  In fact I was testing 3 dozens of KMP9 yesterday trying to duplicate the problems.  

2. Each model on design phase when though at least 100,000 rounds on stress test. It's part of our SOP.

3. We have 3rd party testers and reviewers to help us evaluate pre-production models and made proper adjustment before it become post-production models.

I'm not saying your issue, along with Mike, BabyThor and Dobey are non-issue.  To err is human.  We could be over looking something and this is why we are IN FACT LOOKING at the reported issues and having this conversation.  So I would appreciate if you give us a bit more credit here.



@BabyThor, I'm sorry that your gun fail on the 46th days.  It sucks.  I know.  And I was in similar situation many years ago.  However, everyone in KWA are also airsoft players so we often reminded ourselves how was it like before and why we have be proactive to resolve issues.  Radix already asked you to PM him your contact info.  It will be handle by our CS dept.

#26 BabyThor

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 09:09 PM

PM'ed.  Thanks, by the way.  I am only 17 at the moment so I included my father's information as well.

#27 roguesqd

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 06:03 AM

Just to chime in...

I have seem some similar wear in mine also...some scarring along the bolt.  But, not to the extents that others are reporting.  I just haven't used it very much because I was waiting on extra mags (not very useful using in an event with only one mag).  

Now that I have a couple extra mags, I will be using as my primary next week (weekend of the 11th).  I'll give it a thorough cleaning before then and see how everything turns out after a day of heavy use.

#28 HOLLOWPOINT

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 08:55 AM

I give credit when it's due. The fact of the matter is you have 4 customers that have reported the same problem. That means the product is faulty.

What I'm trying to get from you is for you to understand from a point of view of me and the others. You keep preaching that you need to "reproduce" the same conditions.

I Garrentee that I can walk into any other store other then mine ask to test fire a brand new mp9 and get the same results weather I'm inside or outside. I can even video the entire process. And I will do this if needed to prove my point. Bu I would rather not so as it doesn't make your product and your company look infeior to anothers. So please don't tell us that your reproducing on the same parameters. Cause I feel that is a cop out and an insult to us.

Oh ad I'm not looking to take time out of my day to send in my gun back to you even though the 1 gun is still under warrant. These guns will stay on premise unless a replace is given and I'm allowed to give back the replace at no cost to me and I get a refund for the original gun.

But to be honest I'm not looking for a refund or replacement until this problem is rectified.

#29 xKingSizex

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 11:18 AM

All parties in this conversation have been contacted and we are working on resolving their issues through PM at this time. If anyone else is having an issue and would like to send me a PM then I can take care of you as well. If anyone chooses to not take advantage of this service then that is up to the user but the offer is here for you to get this resolved.
We are always more than happy to try to resolve the issues with our customers. Whether it is a lot of units or only a few having the issue, it doesn't matter to us as we want to fix it. Having our own factory does allow us to do this, but these things do still take time and testing must be done to do it correctly. We are always happy to take care of the customer and repair or replace product if needed, if you are seeking a refund then please feel free to contact the retail store where the item was purchased.

We will consider this thread as resolved since all parties have been contacted and work on the issues individually.

Thank you all that have posted their issues so that we can become better as a company.

#30 HOLLOWPOINT

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 11:54 AM

I was contacted through pm. But it was only about knowing where my store is and what I assume is to get the guns back. I will only post here as to le other members know what is going on.

I'm not taking time out of my day or money out of my pocket to send these back. I'll have them repaired by our techs and our R and D. If and when we design a fix for them I will update with our research.

#31 BabyThor

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 04:21 PM

Good news, my faith in KWA is restored! I spoke to KingSize personally and he sent me an RMA form via email.  I am working on sending it to them as I type this.  I think (not sure) that I still have to pay for shipping there, which is disappointing (if I don't I'll be sure to edit this post), but it sure beats the hell out of having a broken gun.

#32 MikeObrien

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 04:36 PM

Same here, i also spoke to kingsize over the phone and kwa is going to take a look at it.
On a second note they are going to have it shipped free of charge.

I will keep this thread updated with the results of KWA's work.

#33 King

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Posted 05 December 2010 - 12:18 PM

The other day while I was skirmishing with some friends, I had a few hiccups with my KMP9, so after getting home and taking a look at this topic, I decided to run a few tests. Hopefully, what I found can help the KWA staff and all of you gun owners, trying to find a fix on your own.

Testing first day
I first noticed that sometimes when I pulled the trigger the gun would not fire even though it was loaded and had gas. I found that in this situation if I were to shake the gun or give it a good smack in the back that it would start firing again. I decided to try firing the gun without the upper receiver (part# 1), so that I could see what was going on inside. While firing in this manner I was able to duplicate the problem that I had had earlier and concluded that it had to do with the hammer (part# 26) not being allowed to come up. At first, I thought that it had to do with the trigger mechanism, specifically where the sear (part# 151) overlaps the tab on the hammer, but after further investigation it looked like this was not the case. It was getting late and cold, so I decided to pack it up.

Testing second day
I began by firing the gun on semi auto until the gun repeated the problem. I then immediately took the upper receiver (part# 1) off again without pulling the trigger again or cocking the gun again. I again inspected the sear (part# 151) with a small flashlight to make sure that it was completely retracting as to release the hammer; indeed, it was coming all the way off the tab on the hammer, but the hammer still refused to cycle. I started looking for other things that could be restricting the hammer. I found that there is a piece: the disconnecter (part# 153), that overlaps a small piece on the side of the hammer which keeps the hammer from operating if the bolt hasn’t dragged the disconnecter forward. The problem seems to stem from the disconnecter not being dragged forward by the bolt and if you give the bolt carrier (part# 14) a slight push forward, then the disconnecter will slide forward and allow the hammer to come up.

Conclusion
My problem seems to be caused by the bolt carrier not cycling fully, because of this it does not drag the disconnecter off the hammer and the gun cant fire, I have yet to find what is impending the bolt carrier from cycling.

I post this to try and give y’all some insight as to what might be wrong with your guns, seeing as the symptoms of the problems y’all described sounded very similar to the ones that my gun is having. Some things that I have found to help is to simply rack the bolt back because this seems to reset the bolt carrier, and although it is not a permanent fix it worked for me while I was skirmishing. I sincerely hope that this can help all of you.

Forest King

#34 Italian13

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Posted 05 December 2010 - 03:08 PM

Now I know this doesn't have to do with a KMP9, but when I first got my M18, it would occasionally have the exact same problem. Slide would not cycle all the way forward and I would have to push it forward, only enough to drag the disconnecter off the hammer, then I could fire it. Now after I put a 140% recoil spring in the gun, the problem hasn't happened since. Cold it possibly be that the "return" spring for the bolt is too weak on some of the KMP9s? Or that something is causing too much friction for the bolt to  come forward with enough force to drag the disconnecter forward?

#35 Anachro12

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Posted 16 December 2010 - 02:55 AM

I can say that I have been having some of the same problems. My bolt is heavily scratched from the mag release and I am also having some of the problems with the mags not feeding.  For the mag issue it seems that the seam between the top feed lip assembly and the rest of the mag do not meet exactly. The top part hangs slightly over the bottom.  So if the BBs catch this lip it stops them dead in their tracks. If you run a wooden skewer across the seam you can see what I mean, there is a noticeable bump.

For the bolt part I think this scratching from the bolt catch is slowing down the bolt due to the friction involved.  The combined result is that my Kmp9 will not always fully cycle, sometimes a bb won't load, sometimes the bolt doesn't seem to cycle fully, I get a sound that is less loud than normal.  Also because the bolt catch is scraping the side of the bolt sometimes it gets caught on the bolt and the bolt doesn’t lock back after the last shot or when the magazine gets jammed.  This causes the gun to keep dry firing.

Unfortunately I did not know Propane wasn't considered "Green Gas" so when I told that to customer service they said that the propane caused the issue and voided my warranty.  I told them propane wouldn't cause bolt scratching or bbs misfeeding in the magazine but that did not seem to help.
Dont get me wrong, I LOVE my KWA sr10.  It owns the field and shoots like a laser. It is the most well designed airsoft machine I have ever owned.  It is sturdy, the finish is beautiful, the stock barrel is completely sufficient, it is an out of the box monster.  I recommend it to everyone looking for a new aeg.

But the Kmp9? A terrible disappointment.  Worked great for the first month and a half, then just became the most unreliable weapon in my arsenal. Yeah, they will probably say the propane did it. But hearing these stories from all these green gas users at least makes me know that I am not alone.  I look forward to the time when these issues have been replicated and acknowledged by the staff and a solution is reached.  At least for you Green Gas users.  For me I guess propane is causing my magazines to not feed and my bolt to catch even though you green gassers are experiencing the exact same thing.  Come on KWA, your AEGs are the best in the business. I will keep buying them, but my GBB experience is definitely sour.

Temp 70 deg
Bbs. Crossman .25, bioshot .25
Silicon lube from KWA
Being honest I was using propane with kwa silicon in an airsoft innovations adapter but didn’t know it would void warranty.
Total use: about 20 mags

#36 Spiggy

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Posted 16 December 2010 - 11:55 AM

contact the help desk, get in direct contact with someone from the CS department

#37 Guest_allizard_*

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Posted 16 December 2010 - 01:52 PM

We may have found the culprit.  The entire motion is connected to the bolt so it seems like the bolt is caught on the catch and stopping it go forward.  However, after close examination looks like Part #162 a spring that holding on to the part #153 disconnect is a tad bit too strong and pulling the disconnect back.  If it's not fully forward, it will not release the hammer to fire.  We have modified the spring and fire the gun at least 3000 rounds (and counting) with air compressor adapter.  So far the problem guns hasn't comeback.  We'll continue to keep you guys posted.

Like I said, if you got an issue.  Contact us via helpdesk and we will address your issue.

#38 airsofteen

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Posted 16 December 2010 - 02:36 PM

Hey xKingSizex will mine be fixed like that since its there to fix the cylinder spring and the problem about the metal shavings?

#39 MikeObrien

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Posted 03 April 2011 - 09:31 PM

As promised i will post the results of kwa's work, the scoring on the bolt was fixed along with the cycling motion of the bolt.
As stated by kwa the fixes were to sand down the edges of the bolt catch(sharp edge cutting into bolt), replace the hop hop (most likely due to metal shavings from the bolt being scored) and replace the disconnector spring)(allizard said: Part #162 a spring that holding on to the part #153 disconnect is a tad bit too strong and pulling the disconnect back. If it's not fully forward, it will not release the hammer to fire)
I would like to note that kwa's customer service was excellent,the reason for such a late reply is that i wanted to put the product through its paces before giving kwa's work my approval. With that said i certainly give there work and service my approval, thank you kwa!.

There is one thing i think kwa should improve on, and that is there testing of the products before retail.

#40 roguesqd

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Posted 04 April 2011 - 03:21 AM

So, I assume all those parts will be fixed in newer versions of the KMP9 releases?

Are they going to send current owners the new parts if we request them?




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