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Upgrading the M11A1 Thread


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#1 Villain

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Posted 06 October 2008 - 07:35 PM

I Decided to start a thread on finding ways to upgrade the M11. All ideas are accepted including both homemade upgrades as well as just buying upgraded parts. Just make sure to specify where you bought these parts and if they are still in stock!

Years ago the M11 was a popular GBB until people started to find out that the gun itself is a very delicate piece. The open bolt design causes many issues with the slightest dust drying out the gun or degrading any rubber parts. Since people stopped caring for the M11; many companies stopped making performance parts for the gun. Today it is very hard to come by these Performance Parts and when found; usually require people to order overseas.

Some of My Upgrades:

1. I have been able to increase the ROF by using an upgraded spring. But because I was not able to find an exact M11 spring I bought a Desert Eagle Recoil Spring Upgrade. I placed the 2 Desert Eagle Springs on top of each other so that the ends of the spring interlock without the top spring overlapping the bottom.

Arrow shows where the two springs interlock without overlapping.

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2. Another Mod to help ROF is adding recoil pads to the hop up unit and to the rear of the lower body-where the spring rod touches the back. I used a piece of rubber I bought at the hardware store for $2 and cut it to size. In order for the bolt to blow back and activate the gas valve both rubber pieces need to be thin enough to allow this to happen. The thickness of both pieces are roughly 3-4mm. The pad in the rear shortens the distance of the blow back and keeps the spring in place while the pad in the front adds a slight bounce to throw the bolt back.

Picture of the Rear Rubber recoil pad.
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Shows where this recoil pad goes. The arrows are pointing at scratch marks where the spring rod moves a lot. The rubber keeps the rod in place.
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Picture of the front recoil pad glued on. I know it doesn't look pretty.
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3. By adding these recoil pads the bolt remains open slightly but not enough to hinder the gun's performance. But since the bolt is slightly exposed I covered the open bolt with skateboard tape. I first cut a piece of plastic the size of the hole and then I taped that on the outside. I then cover that section with a long strip of skateboard grip tape. The tape makes it look nicer than just having an ugly piece of plastic on the outside.

Picture of the Grip Tape on the Gun. Looks strange but it keeps the dust out!
Posted Image

Anyways that's what I've done so far.

Edited by Villain, 08 October 2008 - 04:56 PM.


#2 Guest_Radix_*

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Posted 06 October 2008 - 08:29 PM

Very interesting mods. Thank you for the post. :)

#3 donrogelio

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Posted 07 October 2008 - 05:24 PM

I am looking for a tight bore barrel upgrade.  Has anyone found anything??  


Also i was thinking about buying a full metal upgrade kit and was wondering if it was worth it.


This weapon is awesome.

#4 Villain

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Posted 07 October 2008 - 06:04 PM

It Definitely will be harder to find the inner barrel from a U.S. Based Retailer but I was able to find one at RedWolf.
Nine Ball Inner Barrel for KSC M11A1
I would say after taxes and shipping fees; It may cost anywhere from $50 to maybe $60 total. It is coming from Hong Kong.

The only other place you can try is DB Custom Airsoft.
DB Custom Airsoft
The only problem is they are not in full production right now. Not sure what exactly is going on but I think they are slowly trying to rebuild the company. I know they used to sell a lot of their products in stores in the past. I'm trying to contact them to make me a custom inner barrel for my mac11 that is roughly the length of a silencer when screwed on.

And About the full metal upgrade. How much are you spending on it? If it's anywhere near the price of $200 might as well get the G&P Steel Body Upgrade with Aluminum Silencer. They are in stock with just about every online retailer. Of course metal, steel, or plastic; it does not affect the performance of your gun. It's purely cosmetic.

Edited by Villain, 07 October 2008 - 08:25 PM.


#5 donrogelio

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Posted 07 October 2008 - 07:52 PM

I know i will get that g&p metal body upgrade for 165.00 later on, but i am always looking for the good deals on various forums  :lol:

As for that tight bore barrel, i'm not sure if it will make a great deal of difference at this point. I would pick one up if it was significantly tighter then stock.  

I think i'm going to get some calipers to measure the bore on the stock barrel to find out. If you knew the the spec's on it, please post and i'll pick up the new one and post result by next week.

Other then that, i was going to go by a gun shop and see about picking up a heavier recoil spring.  

The only other mods i could think of right now would be increasing the flow of gas from the mag.

Thanks for the help.

#6 Villain

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Posted 07 October 2008 - 08:32 PM

I set aside money each month and put it into my Airsoft fund box. I would really love to get that steel kit but it's just not priority.

The original inner barrel I beleive is 6.04. I think I looked that up too on other forums.

The Nineball barrel at RedWolf is 6.03, but that one I wanted from DB Custom is 6.01. They even said it would increase FPS anywhere from 10+ or 15+.

And as for the hi-flow gas valves for magazines. If you can get a hold of one, buy it. Those are very hard to come by right now. Or you can try the mod I have heard of, which is to file down the opening of the valve. Sort of a make shift Hi-Flow Valve. I have not done this myself. I'm Kind of scared to try it!

Edited by Villain, 07 October 2008 - 08:34 PM.


#7 donrogelio

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 08:09 AM

Another option is to buy an extra stock valve for the magazine, there only 9.50, and experiment with that.  I have seen the after market high flow valves, and it just bothers me that they cost as much as a new mag..... FOR THIS WEAPON!!  Seriously like 33 buck around the net.


I called kwa and they told me specifically that it was only a 6.4 barrel.  I did order an extra valve so i will let you know what i can do with it.

Edited by donrogelio, 08 October 2008 - 03:11 PM.


#8 Villain

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 04:49 PM

I did not realize the replacement valve was so cheap! I read up more on the make shift valve. Sounds easier than I thought. I just bought a valve removal tool so I'm waiting for it to come in and then I'm going to try out the same mod. I'll post results and pictures soon.

Edited by Villain, 08 October 2008 - 04:59 PM.


#9 donrogelio

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Posted 10 October 2008 - 08:16 AM

Hey bro i found this link http://unconventiona...a-hiflow-valve/

Looks like it would work for this.  I should get my extra valve tomorrow so i should have something done by Tuesday.  The have a lot of good stuff on www.airsoftforum.com

Any ideas for a laser mount of some sort??? I really want to stick a green laser on the bottom.

Edited by donrogelio, 10 October 2008 - 09:20 AM.


#10 Villain

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Posted 10 October 2008 - 12:03 PM

Well I've been meaning to contact the actual Cobray Company about the dimensions and thread size of some of their accessories for the real Mac11.

Cobray Company Website

They have a scope mount that might actually work for the airsoft version. It looks like its just a clamp and doesn't need any drill tapping into the body. It looks good for laser or scopes. Plus I really want the K Grip but I really don't think the threads on the KWA match the ones they sell. Unless the threads for KWA M11 are the same as a M11 9mm or M10 .45ACP than it won't work.

Picture of a real M11 9mm with K Grip
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And the laser mounted under the gun...the only thing I can think that would be easy if you get a universal pistol laser that clamps to the trigger guard. You can find those at any gun store. My Buddy has one for his real 1911. He spent maybe $45 for it. The only other option is to drill tap a small rail at the front of the gun.

You'll find the laser here: Midway USA Store

Edited by Villain, 12 October 2008 - 02:30 PM.


#11 Villain

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Posted 12 October 2008 - 11:10 AM

Make Shift Hi-Flow Valve

Thanks DONROGELIO for posting that link. This was one of the articles I found a while back but couldn't find it again.

Tools Used
  • Dremel Cutter
  • Hammer
  • Vice
  • Valve Removal Tool

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The original valve has 4 holes where the gas comes out of. To make it hi-flow you need to cut out two of the bars opposite of each other to make 2 large holes.
I took out the valve, placed it in a vice grip and cut 2 of the bars out to make two large holes.

Picture of the sections I cut out
Posted Image

Results

Attempt #1

I loaded the mag with both gas and bb's and proceeded to fire the gun on full auto. The gun fired 3 rounds before it stopped shooting. I had to keep cocking the charging handle every 5 or 6 bb's. Also a drop in FPS.

Failed

Attempt #2

I guess I didn't put enough gas in the magazine. This time I tried it again with more gas and got similar results. Instead of the gun stopping every 6 bb's, it would stop shooting every 10-12bb's. Same drop in FPS.

Failed

Attempt #3

I took a look at the valve and mag; both seem to be working fine. The gas comes out much faster when I press the valve with my finger; I compared this mag to my non-modified mag. So I figured my gun must be dry and needs some cleaning and re-lubing. The only other factor that might hinder the performance is the cold weather. It's been cold lately and that definitely affects FPS. Once I do that then I will try out the gun. I'll post results soon.

Edited by Villain, 13 October 2008 - 08:10 AM.


#12 donrogelio

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Posted 13 October 2008 - 02:53 AM

I am going to give it a go after work..

Have you heard anything from D B custom's about a tight bore barrel??

Just wondering, cause i think the next route would be finding a compatible barrel from a different model of gun.

#13 Villain

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Posted 13 October 2008 - 07:58 AM

I found another post on AirsoftRetreat.com where someone else wanted to buy from them. This airsofter said that their company is up and running and they are busy. They are selling their custom barrels through online dealers. Because their company is somewhat small, they have to fulfill a ton of orders for their dealers so they are unable to attend to orders for individual customers via email. This guy was still able to get the inner barrel that he wanted by contacting them by phone and placing an order. So I might do that sometime later. Currently my money situation is tight till my next payday.

Still have to finish the hi-flow valve test. Might be able to do that tonight. If not I can do it tomorrow.

Edited by Villain, 13 October 2008 - 08:00 AM.


#14 donrogelio

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Posted 13 October 2008 - 01:50 PM

i have done exactly what you have described.  It seems to have a little more umph.   I don't have a chrono so i cant say for sure about any exact difference.  

I will say the mag with the Modded valve needed to be recharged faster.  

So it works and your gun needs a lubb'en...

I will take more sample shots and come up with a good comparison later.

#15 donrogelio

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Posted 13 October 2008 - 04:16 PM

I tried calling db customs but i only got a busy tone.

#16 Villain

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Posted 13 October 2008 - 05:12 PM

I was able to complete the testing. Thanks to the California fires around San Fernando Valley, I was able to go home early from work before the freeways were shutdown.

I had good results and bad results. I compared the modded magazine with my non-modded magazine:

Results:
  • Increase in Rate of Fire; not much but made it smoother.
  • Not much increase in FPS; M11 needs a better intake valve inside the bolt for this to have a big effect. I would say it adds maybe 5-7fps
  • Huge problem with cooling down in magazine. When shooting Full Auto the magazine will cool down faster than the non-modded mag. But I get best results when shooting in small bursts.

Conclusion:
I would have to say that this mod makes the gun shoot smoother but has no noticeable increase in FPS or ROF. The magazine definitely cools down faster and loses power when dumping a magazine. But it also does not help that its winter weather right now and cold temperature effects the gas. If you shoot on bursts and not unload the whole mag; you will be fine.

Since DONROGELIO is having trouble getting a hold of DB Custom Airsoft, I'm not sure if I will get a tightbore inner barrel unless I order overseas.

Oh and unfortunately I don't think there is a way to find an inner barrel from another gun and make it fit. It's the way the M11 barrel is made with 2 notches on the sides of it. The one closer to the end is to hold the barrel in place; the one closer to the bolt holds the hop-up. Just about all other inner barrels for other guns have 1 notch that is closer to the bolt end. So If you tried to install a "i.e. desert eagle inner barrel" it will fit but probably fall out the front. But I could be wrong and maybe someone will post something new that I have never heard of!

My next mod probably wont be for awhile just because I recently have acquired a KWA M17 and have planned some mods for that pistol. But the next step for my M11 is to get the K-Grip Attachment I talked about in earlier posts.

Edited by Villain, 13 October 2008 - 05:31 PM.


#17 donrogelio

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Posted 13 October 2008 - 05:38 PM

I have not started looking, but i'm sure there is a barrel that is smooth and could be notched out and made to fit the m11a1.   I am going to e-mail some of the tech support here on the KWA website and see if they know anything.  

You are right on about the temp issue.  

Dumping the magazine is fun, but it totally alters fps while in use.  Burst fire is best.  

I still have one stock magazine that i will get chrono'ed some time to post against the modded valve.

#18 Villain

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Posted 13 October 2008 - 07:46 PM

Definitely post those results if you chrono. I don't have access to one and the local shop won't chrono guns if there is no orange tip. I really don't care to paint the barrel and they don't accept taped barrels.

I am curious to see how much FPS was increased or possibly hindered by this winter weather.

I've always said the Mac11 is a summertime gun! It usually hibernates till spring. :D

Edited by Villain, 13 October 2008 - 07:48 PM.





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