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Which process for hop up chamber removal on M4A1?


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#1 threadkill

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Posted 23 September 2008 - 10:07 AM

Hey gang,

I have a promy tube on its way for my KWA M4A1; this will be my first time replacing a barrel. I have watched as many YouTube vids as possible to get an idea of the steps involved.

There seems to be a few different methods of removing the hop up chamber (could not find one specific to KWA). One method is to remove the C-clip and  the hop up adjustment gear (and maybe another pin). The second method was simply to remove the C-clip and then twist and pull; separate the barrel from the chamber.

Which method is most applicable to removing the M4A1 hopup chamber? Yes, I am a little nervous and just trying to prepare as much as possible; not take any chances with the new gun (my first AEG).

I've been reading all the posts about which bucking will fit, and I have several different ones on the way. My hope is that I can get the Firefly (soft) to fit, as this one seems to get the best marks. Sans the firefly, will try Systema. Also hope to install the Big Out H nub.

Really jonesing to install a Type 0 cylindar and a M130 spring, but need to do a lot more research on that disassembly process.

Thanks; glad to be here.

#2 karMeister

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Posted 23 September 2008 - 10:27 AM

View Postthreadkill, on Sep 23 2008, 10:07 AM, said:

Hey gang,

I have a promy tube on its way for my KWA M4A1; this will be my first time replacing a barrel. I have watched as many YouTube vids as possible to get an idea of the steps involved.

There seems to be a few different methods of removing the hop up chamber (could not find one specific to KWA). One method is to remove the C-clip and  the hop up adjustment gear (and maybe another pin). The second method was simply to remove the C-clip and then twist and pull; separate the barrel from the chamber.

Which method is most applicable to removing the M4A1 hopup chamber? Yes, I am a little nervous and just trying to prepare as much as possible; not take any chances with the new gun (my first AEG).

I've been reading all the posts about which bucking will fit, and I have several different ones on the way. My hope is that I can get the Firefly (soft) to fit, as this one seems to get the best marks. Sans the firefly, will try Systema. Also hope to install the Big Out H nub.

Really jonesing to install a Type 0 cylindar and a M130 spring, but need to do a lot more research on that disassembly process.

Thanks; glad to be here.

Hi! Welcome!

You just have to turn hop off, remove c clip and gently remove the barrel (comes off with the hop rubber). Sound more like your second method =P

Good luck!

#3 threadkill

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Posted 23 September 2008 - 10:54 AM

View PostkarMeister, on Sep 23 2008, 02:27 PM, said:

Hi! Welcome!

You just have to turn hop off, remove c clip and gently remove the barrel (comes off with the hop rubber). Sound more like your second method =P

Good luck!

Thank you for the quick response and for the warm welcome.

That is such good news; fewer parts for me to loose.... 8~). Currently, I am shooting with hop completely off, but will double check before I start.

I'm tracking the barrel-n-bucking order; should be here Thursday. Hope to get installed by the weekend; will report my results asap.

Cheers!

#4 vic_man4

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Posted 23 September 2008 - 11:30 AM

View Postthreadkill, on Sep 23 2008, 11:07 AM, said:

Hey gang,

I have a promy tube on its way for my KWA M4A1; this will be my first time replacing a barrel. I have watched as many YouTube vids as possible to get an idea of the steps involved.

There seems to be a few different methods of removing the hop up chamber (could not find one specific to KWA). One method is to remove the C-clip and  the hop up adjustment gear (and maybe another pin). The second method was simply to remove the C-clip and then twist and pull; separate the barrel from the chamber.

Which method is most applicable to removing the M4A1 hopup chamber? Yes, I am a little nervous and just trying to prepare as much as possible; not take any chances with the new gun (my first AEG).

I've been reading all the posts about which bucking will fit, and I have several different ones on the way. My hope is that I can get the Firefly (soft) to fit, as this one seems to get the best marks. Sans the firefly, will try Systema. Also hope to install the Big Out H nub.

Really jonesing to install a Type 0 cylindar and a M130 spring, but need to do a lot more research on that disassembly process.

Thanks; glad to be here.

Yeah, no need to install a Type 0 cylinder unless you intend to increase your inner barrel lenght.

#5 threadkill

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Posted 23 September 2008 - 11:53 AM

View Postvic_man4, on Sep 23 2008, 03:30 PM, said:

Yeah, no need to install a Type 0 cylinder unless you intend to increase your inner barrel lenght.

Well, actually, I'd read several threads (I have been snooping around big-time) that a 407mm Prom barrel fits so that is what I ordered. However, did you mean a more significant increase in inner barrel length? Having a history of never being able to leave well enough alone, I could see me extending the barrel and adding a mock silencer, or similar madness. I'm at the moment thinking distance, accuracy, and consistency; I care less about ROF. May all change if/when I find a team (live in the Boston area).

Thanks for posting. It is always tough being a noob at any sport, but I look forward to the day I can completely strip and upgrade/maintain my own gun. Almost as cool as shooting said gun.

#6 brooklyn468

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Posted 23 September 2008 - 02:59 PM

Yeah, hop- up removal is very easy. It was my 2nd AEG, and I didn't do much ( if any ) work on my DBOY m4, so this was the first one I really got into ( literally  :lol: ).

You may want to look at this link -
http://www.airsoftre...w...=118&cat=49

It helped me at first, and by try 2, I was doing it by myself.

You may want a little more reaserch before you take apart a gearbox, but if you need to disassemble your m4, I have the perfect website:
http://www.mechbox.com/m4m16

This website helped me SOO much while taking apart my m4. The KWA KM-4a1 is based off of the Marui 733, so disassembly is the same.

Good luck!  :)

And BTW, you don't need a team to airsoft, I don't, I just show up at my field for public play, so don't stress yourself looking for a team.

#7 threadkill

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Posted 24 September 2008 - 04:29 AM

Hey brooklyn468,

Wow, what great links; thanks a ton. These vids take the mystery out of a spring and cyl upgrade. I'll shoot in the new barrel for a while (once installed) and then look to this next step. I can already tell that resistance is futile....

Quote

And BTW, you don't need a team to airsoft, I don't, I just show up at my field for public play, so don't stress yourself looking for a team.

I'd certainly settle for finding a public field (would prefer this, actually) in the greater Boston area.

Cheers!

#8 Doctor Kajita

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Posted 24 September 2008 - 02:12 PM

View Postbrooklyn468, on Sep 23 2008, 03:59 PM, said:

You may want a little more reaserch before you take apart a gearbox, but if you need to disassemble your m4, I have the perfect website:
http://www.mechbox.com/m4m16

This website helped me SOO much while taking apart my m4. The KWA KM-4a1 is based off of the Marui 733, so disassembly is the same.

Good luck!  :)

And BTW, you don't need a team to airsoft, I don't, I just show up at my field for public play, so don't stress yourself looking for a team.

Great vid man, thanks for posting!

#9 brooklyn468

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Posted 24 September 2008 - 03:24 PM

Thought it would help, anytime everyone!

I guess you saw the version 2 gearbox upgrade then? Wow, you're ahead of the game!

Good luck!

Heh, "resistance is futile" ... Wasn't that from Star Wars?

#10 threadkill

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Posted 24 September 2008 - 04:50 PM

View Postbrooklyn468, on Sep 24 2008, 07:24 PM, said:

Thought it would help, anytime everyone!

I guess you saw the version 2 gearbox upgrade then? Wow, you're ahead of the game!

Good luck!

Heh, "resistance is futile" ... Wasn't that from Star Wars?

Heck, I've watched all three: the disassembly, v2 upgrade, and the reassembly vids a few times each....

The line is actually from Star Trek TNG; A quote from the Borg. My fear is that before it's over, my gun (and maybe me) will start to take on that Borg look.

Cheers, Bro

#11 brooklyn468

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Posted 24 September 2008 - 07:14 PM

View Postthreadkill, on Sep 24 2008, 07:50 PM, said:

Heck, I've watched all three: the disassembly, v2 upgrade, and the reassembly vids a few times each....

The line is actually from Star Trek TNG; A quote from the Borg. My fear is that before it's over, my gun (and maybe me) will start to take on that Borg look.

Cheers, Bro

Good! you probably are somewhere around the same level of knoledge I am at, minus the rewiring experience  :lol:

Heh the name Borg says it all  :lol:

Anyway, good luck!

#12 threadkill

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Posted 25 September 2008 - 07:00 PM

Got the barrel and buckings, and after a few challenges (created a thread about the brass collar that goes in front of the hop up chamber not fitting), I finally got the gun back together. Like several others, I could not get the firefly bucking to seat correctly on a few attempts so just reinstalled the stock bucking so I could see what the barrel was like.

My old shooting crony (back from my archery days in the early 90s) is fickle about lighting so could not measure speed, but took several shots in the cellar from about 5 yards. Nice grouping so far. Also, my gun seems a little quieter and solid feeling/sounding. The scope mount was a tad looses so this could also be why.

Will try the Systema and Guarder clear silicone bucking over the weekend; maybe try the firefly again, just for the experience.

The H nub was a pain in the rear to get seated; ended up removing the gears and dropping it in from the bottom.

Thanks for the votes of confidence you guys; this was a very cool experience.

Cheers!

Edited by threadkill, 25 September 2008 - 07:32 PM.


#13 threadkill

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Posted 26 September 2008 - 01:29 PM

Okay, was able to squeeze the Firefly bucking into my M4A1. Took a good bit of lube and coaxing, and being green, not certain if it is in as well as should be. It looks okay from the rear part of the barrel; no rubber pinched/hanging down at the end of the barrel, and with Hop all the way on, the nubs (yes, that's plural) look centered. I did have to cut about 2 mm from the end to get the C-clamp back into position.

I wrote nubs versus nub because with the Firefly bucking, as mentioned by others, there are four tiny bumps on the inside of the bucking, right where the bucking nub pushes up through the barrel and into the underside of the bucking. I guess the ultimate issue of a misaligned bucking would cause these nubs to be offset, causing even more side spin than a bucking without them.

Also, I am using a Big Out H-nub (black). Given the internal nubs on the Firefly, curious whether having the corners of the nub pushing up on the sides of the bucking, versus straight across, are an advantage or a disadvantage. That is, is the h-nub more advantageous for a smooth bucking. Any opinions or conjecture?

Was able to chrony the Promy 407mm barrel with the Firefly and H-nub, and with .25s, got a high of 389 and an average of ~381. The gun remains quiet and solid feeling. Will need to bench and shoot to see how the grouping look, but close range still looks nice and tight.

For the other buckings I tried:

Systema - Too thick; did not spend much time trying

Guarder clear silicone - Too thick; did not spend much time trying. A note of interest on the Guarder is that it also has an internal nub, but unlike the Firefly, this internal nub is one solid piece instead of four tiny pieces.

#14 vic_man4

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Posted 27 September 2008 - 06:02 AM

View Postthreadkill, on Sep 26 2008, 01:29 PM, said:

Okay, was able to squeeze the Firefly bucking into my M4A1. Took a good bit of lube and coaxing, and being green, not certain if it is in as well as should be. It looks okay from the rear part of the barrel; no rubber pinched/hanging down at the end of the barrel, and with Hop all the way on, the nubs (yes, that's plural) look centered. I did have to cut about 2 mm from the end to get the C-clamp back into position.

I wrote nubs versus nub because with the Firefly bucking, as mentioned by others, there are four tiny bumps on the inside of the bucking, right where the bucking nub pushes up through the barrel and into the underside of the bucking. I guess the ultimate issue of a misaligned bucking would cause these nubs to be offset, causing even more side spin than a bucking without them.

Also, I am using a Big Out H-nub (black). Given the internal nubs on the Firefly, curious whether having the corners of the nub pushing up on the sides of the bucking, versus straight across, are an advantage or a disadvantage. That is, is the h-nub more advantageous for a smooth bucking. Any opinions or conjecture?

Was able to chrony the Promy 407mm barrel with the Firefly and H-nub, and with .25s, got a high of 389 and an average of ~381. The gun remains quiet and solid feeling. Will need to bench and shoot to see how the grouping look, but close range still looks nice and tight.

For the other buckings I tried:

Systema - Too thick; did not spend much time trying

Guarder clear silicone - Too thick; did not spend much time trying. A note of interest on the Guarder is that it also has an internal nub, but unlike the Firefly, this internal nub is one solid piece instead of four tiny pieces.

Good Review, two thumbs up. Im probably getting a FireFly in a bit since Im done airsofting till early spring, I can put my gun down for upgrades, take it slow you know. Im glad that you comfirmed the Fire Fly bucking fit. But yuo when said green, did you mean Hulk? ;)

#15 Guest_allizard_*

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Posted 27 September 2008 - 06:36 AM

I honestly don't know why people use H-nub /w firefly.  Kinda defeat it's purpose is it?

#16 Stealthmaster14

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Posted 27 September 2008 - 09:23 AM

Yeah, I have to find out if the H nub is necessary or not.  Some say it works great, others say it does not work since the firefly already has a "fin" design.

#17 vic_man4

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Posted 27 September 2008 - 02:00 PM

Which would be better alone in your opinion;
FireFly bucking or Big Out H-nub?

#18 Stealthmaster14

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Posted 27 September 2008 - 02:47 PM

A promy bucking with an H-nub might beat a firefly.

#19 threadkill

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Posted 01 October 2008 - 02:56 PM

View Postallizard, on Sep 27 2008, 10:36 AM, said:

I honestly don't know why people use H-nub /w firefly.  Kinda defeat it's purpose is it?


I have tons of speculation on the "why,", but it is only speculation and a bit verbose; may not be of interest... Hope someone that has tried the various combinations will post their finding and maybe why they think it works.

If anyone needs a pic of the hop up to barrel relationship, here's one. The BB is at the point of being pushed forward by the tappet plate and ready for launch.

Vic - If I had to choose just one, right now I think I would choose the h-nub with standard bucking, as the fit of the Firefly is still questionable. Seems there are brave souls fitting TM hop chambers to the KMA so this may change things.

Posted Image
Shot at 2008-10-01

#20 vic_man4

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Posted 01 October 2008 - 05:08 PM

View Postthreadkill, on Oct 1 2008, 03:56 PM, said:

I have tons of speculation on the "why,", but it is only speculation and a bit verbose; may not be of interest... Hope someone that has tried the various combinations will post their finding and maybe why they think it works.

If anyone needs a pic of the hop up to barrel relationship, here's one. The BB is at the point of being pushed forward by the tappet plate and ready for launch.

Vic - If I had to choose just one, right now I think I would choose the h-nub with standard bucking, as the fit of the Firefly is still questionable. Seems there are brave souls fitting TM hop chambers to the KMA so this may change things.

Posted Image
Shot at 2008-10-01

Yeah, I got nothing but time because the season starts back up again in mid spring, so since my moneys just accumulatiing from my job, I just will wait out the storm and choose the best results.




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