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KM-16 DMR


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#1 geminye

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Posted 07 August 2008 - 02:44 PM

Hello everybody.  I'm new to airsoft.  Currently i only have a TSD m14 springer i paid $30 for.  I'm moving to the next level.  I plan on buying the KWA KM16 after extensive research of many, many different guns.  I think it will be the best fit for me.  I was going to buy the G&G GR16 (G&G didn't include a working charging handle! :-( ), but was much more impressed with the quality of the stock parts from KWA.  

My goal is to be a DM.  I don't want to sit all day for that one good shot as a sniper, and am not interested in CQB, so a DMR works best for me.  

My question is, being that the KM16 has the m130 spring, should i do anything else to the internals, such as a tightbore, or just leave it stock and add optics, and bi-pod?  Any thoughts?

I should also note that i will mostly be playing in wooded areas at medium to long distances (obviously).

Edited by geminye, 07 August 2008 - 02:47 PM.


#2 Guest_Radix_*

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Posted 07 August 2008 - 02:55 PM

Welcome!  Your airsoft path from this point on will be very slippery .... ;)

You should be fine with the KM16 in it's stock form.  Optics on airsoft rifles are usually for aesthetic than anything else (effective range is 200 feet or less). Although the 4X ACOG replicas work pretty well for my aging eyes.  I don't suggest upgrades until you've pass the break-in period AND after the 45 days warranty has expired.  This way you'll know the true performance of your gun.  Feel free to ask any questions.

#3 geminye

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Posted 07 August 2008 - 03:12 PM

Radix,

Thank you very much.  Great advice.  I was planning on putting a 4x scope with sight rails on top for the mid/close range, or just red dot.  

I do have one question.  Will most gas blocks work on the KM16?

#4 brooklyn468

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Posted 07 August 2008 - 04:15 PM

View Postgeminye, on Aug 7 2008, 06:12 PM, said:

Radix,

Thank you very much.  Great advice.  I was planning on putting a 4x scope with sight rails on top for the mid/close range, or just red dot.  

I do have one question.  Will most gas blocks work on the KM16?

I would assume so if the KM-16 is like the KM-4a1.

#5 Stealthmaster14

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Posted 07 August 2008 - 04:17 PM

After the 45 day warranty, I suggest you install a sytema bucking and DBC barrel.  This will give you great range and accuracy.  (Effective range will be about 250 feet!)  If you install RIS rails, I suggest you get a gripod.  

http://www.airsoftgi...roducts_id=1960

I have used one, the quality is pretty nice and the grip feels good.  (I suggest you don't let the legs pop out without pressure because they could probably break)

A 4x scope would be pretty useful, I suggest you get a carrying handle mount and put the scope on that. (that way you can still use the iron sights)  

hope this helps

#6 brooklyn468

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Posted 07 August 2008 - 04:52 PM

View PostStealthmaster14, on Aug 7 2008, 07:17 PM, said:

After the 45 day warranty, I suggest you install a sytema bucking and DBC barrel.  This will give you great range and accuracy.  (Effective range will be about 250 feet!)  If you install RIS rails, I suggest you get a gripod.  

http://www.airsoftgi...roducts_id=1960

I have used one, the quality is pretty nice and the grip feels good.  (I suggest you don't let the legs pop out without pressure because they could probably break)

A 4x scope would be pretty useful, I suggest you get a carrying handle mount and put the scope on that. (that way you can still use the iron sights)  

hope this helps

Lol grippods look REALLY ugly, no offence. :lol:

You will also find out that unless you are a sniper waiting for that shot, or a support gunner gaurding a hallway or something like that, bipods are pretty much useless during a war.

HOWEVER, they come in handy A TON when you are cleaning your barrel, or preforming maintainance.

As for the barrel, you might want to be aware of your field's FPS limit. For instance, mine is 400 fps, so I can't install a good tightbore barrel or my KM-4a1 might be too powerful.

But if you are planning on going to the KM-16, your FPS limit is probably not 400 fps, because the m130 in the KM-16 is stronger than the m120 in the KM-4a1, so that is probably not a problem. And you probably were not going to a field with a $40 springer. :lol:

Yeah the Systema bucking could work, but some people say that it does not, so I would go with the firefly bucking just to be safe.

Besides getting a rail for your carry handle, you may want to look into other risers, or getting a CASV or something like that.

And to end it off, you will need a scope. Like Radix said, scopes that zoom in too far are worthless. 4x is pushing it. I personally prefer 1x red dots, maybe an EOTech replica? That may be too expensive, though.

Your choise, good luck!  :lol:

#7 Stealthmaster14

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Posted 07 August 2008 - 09:52 PM

Actually, I read fireflies don't work with DBCs.  (I've only heard one person say they work)

Personally, I think grippods are great.  They perform two jobs, a RIS grip and a bipod.  If you go prone a lot, it's nice to have a little more stability.

Edited by Stealthmaster14, 07 August 2008 - 09:53 PM.


#8 Guest_allizard_*

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Posted 07 August 2008 - 10:56 PM

BTW... 250' effective range?!!  Not likely.  Have you actually measure it with a tape or you are just guessing?  I've found lots of people completely over estimate their gun's range.  Do you know the different between effective range vs. maximum range?

#9 lpesce

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Posted 08 August 2008 - 07:37 AM

View Postgeminye, on Aug 7 2008, 03:44 PM, said:

Hello everybody.  I'm new to airsoft.  Currently i only have a TSD m14 springer i paid $30 for.  I'm moving to the next level.  I plan on buying the KWA KM16 after extensive research of many, many different guns.  I think it will be the best fit for me.  I was going to buy the G&G GR16 (G&G didn't include a working charging handle! :-( ), but was much more impressed with the quality of the stock parts from KWA.  

My goal is to be a DM.  I don't want to sit all day for that one good shot as a sniper, and am not interested in CQB, so a DMR works best for me.  

My question is, being that the KM16 has the m130 spring, should i do anything else to the internals, such as a tightbore, or just leave it stock and add optics, and bi-pod?  Any thoughts?

I should also note that i will mostly be playing in wooded areas at medium to long distances (obviously).

Hello and welcome.

I am also considering a DMR position, but I would like to warn you that a DMR position is the most expensive position in the battlefield. A DMR has to reach and touch someone well before any of your team members can. Otherwise all you will have is a huge gun shooting the same as your next elbow M4A1 member.

Here is a thread from another forum that talks about this very issue:

http://www.airsoftfo...ap-t117966.html

For me, I would like to put together an M110 (examples here: http://en.wikipedia....c_Sniper_System and http://www.knightarm...mages/sr25.html ), but I know some of the parts are not available (like the suppressor - a similar one available is a few inches short). But it will have to reach at least 300' to be an effective DM rifle. Internals are more important that external (unless you go for the look only). Also remember that DMR have single shots only (though rifles I have seen like the SR15, GR15 and CA15 all have Auto available).

M16 is a good base especially for the 3rd party parts available, and though I have not seen one yet, KWA should be strong enough to put you in the right path to the 300' mark.

Cheers and Good Luck
Leo

Edited by lpesce, 08 August 2008 - 07:41 AM.


#10 karMeister

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Posted 08 August 2008 - 09:18 AM

View Postlpesce, on Aug 8 2008, 07:37 AM, said:

Hello and welcome.

I am also considering a DMR position, but I would like to warn you that a DMR position is the most expensive position in the battlefield. A DMR has to reach and touch someone well before any of your team members can. Otherwise all you will have is a huge gun shooting the same as your next elbow M4A1 member.

Here is a thread from another forum that talks about this very issue:

http://www.airsoftfo...ap-t117966.html

For me, I would like to put together an M110 (examples here: http://en.wikipedia....c_Sniper_System and http://www.knightarm...mages/sr25.html ), but I know some of the parts are not available (like the suppressor - a similar one available is a few inches short). But it will have to reach at least 300' to be an effective DM rifle. Internals are more important that external (unless you go for the look only). Also remember that DMR have single shots only (though rifles I have seen like the SR15, GR15 and CA15 all have Auto available).

M16 is a good base especially for the 3rd party parts available, and though I have not seen one yet, KWA should be strong enough to put you in the right path to the 300' mark.

Cheers and Good Luck
Leo



It is normal for an average airsofter to spend atleast 1,000 USD on one gun. Dude we all shoot 6mm bbs. the only diff is the weight.  Welcome to airsoft. :lol:

#11 Stealthmaster14

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Posted 08 August 2008 - 10:02 AM

Maybe not quite 250 feet, but it's at least 200 feet.  My friend's KWA uses a stock bucking and a KM barrel (6.04) and his effective range is about 200 feet.  I assume with a firefly bucking and DBC barrel you would be able to get targets at around 250.  (at the max though)

#12 Guest_allizard_*

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Posted 08 August 2008 - 10:18 AM

I can hit a man size target at 221'.  maximum range is around 230-235'  And that's on a good day.  With wind factor  200' effective is pretty much the most airsoft gun can do.  Someone about mention about 300'.   I'm sorry, I've never seen any airsoft gun shoot beyound 250'.  Not even my $1000 bolt action sniper rifle.  

Most out door game I've played, even when it's wide open area.  The engagement range is 80' - 150' far less then what you expect.

#13 geminye

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Posted 08 August 2008 - 02:09 PM

4x would be too much?  Would it give me 1-4x, or are they just 4x?  If so, then would the red dot 1x be enough to give me a viewing and distance advantage over someone with an A-K, or CQB aeg?  And with the red dots, do they require a riser to go over the FS?

#14 geminye

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Posted 08 August 2008 - 02:45 PM

Ipesce,

I think that the sensationalism of airsoft extremers has gotten to you.  $1000!?  Insane.  When i say DMR, i'm referring to the position behind the squad, but in front of the sniper, who, in my case would be reaching at most 200 to 250 feet.  To say a DMR must be shooting at 300 is far too unrealistic in terms of average play.  I know i'm a noob, but I think the majority of players don't want to spend that much unless they are playing every single week-end.  Perhaps i'm mistaken.

For those who play constantly, that would probably be a fair cost for upgrades, but not for me.  I think the KM16 w/ a tightbore and optics will be more than a match for the rest of the guns i'm playing against, including the bolt action snipers.

Edited by geminye, 08 August 2008 - 02:47 PM.


#15 Guest_allizard_*

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Posted 08 August 2008 - 05:29 PM

IMHO, any bolt action airsoft rifle is pretty useless in gaming.  Especially when you are in big ops like Lion Claws.

#16 vic_man4

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Posted 09 August 2008 - 10:52 AM

View Postallizard, on Aug 8 2008, 06:29 PM, said:

IMHO, any bolt action airsoft rifle is pretty useless in gaming.  Especially when you are in big ops like Lion Claws.

I agree, my friend got one, I dont know if he has even hit anyone :lol:

#17 karMeister

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Posted 09 August 2008 - 12:20 PM

View Postvic_man4, on Aug 9 2008, 10:52 AM, said:

I agree, my friend got one, I dont know if he has even hit anyone :lol:


LOL!  snipers/long barreled aegs do have the advantage of +10ft... hehehe!   if it was 30 or 50 id get one! hehehe!

Edited by karMeister, 09 August 2008 - 12:21 PM.


#18 brooklyn468

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Posted 09 August 2008 - 04:08 PM

View Postgeminye, on Aug 8 2008, 05:09 PM, said:

4x would be too much?  Would it give me 1-4x, or are they just 4x?  If so, then would the red dot 1x be enough to give me a viewing and distance advantage over someone with an A-K, or CQB aeg?  And with the red dots, do they require a riser to go over the FS?

1. 4x in my opinion is a little too much. You are going DMR, so I think you could pull it off, but I would still get a red dot sight.

2. ACOG 4x only give you 4x zoom.

3. Most likely. Although, I would not say all AKs have a short range. They can be just as deadly as an m4 when they are upgraded.

4. It depends on which one you would get. I am pretty sure EOTechs have enough of a platform to sit on that they can look over the front sight for the most part. ACOG 4x most likely don't have enough room unless you have a riser, which some may come with.

Although, just for laughs and giggles, I put my hunting scope on my m4a1, and believe it or not, even though the scope was CLEARLY blocked by the front sight, like the FS was almost as tall as the scope, I looked through it and there was nothing different than when it was on my riser. By the way, I think my scope was a 4 or 6x zoom.

Heh some of those funny things you can find out with your rifle just by playing with it :lol:

#19 geminye

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Posted 11 August 2008 - 06:48 AM

Thanks for the info brooklyn.

#20 lpesce

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Posted 11 August 2008 - 07:19 AM

View Postgeminye, on Aug 8 2008, 03:45 PM, said:

Ipesce,

I think that the sensationalism of airsoft extremers has gotten to you.  $1000!?  Insane.  When i say DMR, i'm referring to the position behind the squad, but in front of the sniper, who, in my case would be reaching at most 200 to 250 feet.  To say a DMR must be shooting at 300 is far too unrealistic in terms of average play.  I know i'm a noob, but I think the majority of players don't want to spend that much unless they are playing every single week-end.  Perhaps i'm mistaken.

For those who play constantly, that would probably be a fair cost for upgrades, but not for me.  I think the KM16 w/ a tightbore and optics will be more than a match for the rest of the guns i'm playing against, including the bolt action snipers.

Yep, $1K. I just got a CA25, and planning to upgrade extensively. The goal will be 300'. If I cannot reach it, it will not be for not trying.

I agree that 300' is way too optimistic, and agree also that engagements usually are at much shorter range. A round BB has a difficult time going straight through the air, and will not expect to hit much at 300'; but, having said that, if i can achieve a good % hits at 200', I'll be happy.

I also have a bolt action M24 from CA, and stock, I used to hit people around 100' to 150', which is not much different from an AEG. I have just finished a partial upgrade (advanced cylinder with 300% spring). I have the power now and have reached past 200', but it is all over the place. The second part of that upgrade will be TBB and a new air-chamber with a better hopup.

Regarding the scope. I have a 3-9x30 on it, and though it looks good on the M24, I never use the zoom, and keep it at 3. It is all I need.

Going back to the DM position, I would still use a scope, 3x most likely, with a mil-dot.

Cheers
Leo




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