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Some thoughts on the new PTS Mega Arms MKM


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#141 BeachEMT

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 10:08 AM

Hey all. I have some interesting information from a very reputable source. He claims that the MKM and "traditional" LM4s were designed to be completely compatible except for the handguard. The impression I got from him was that any other incompatibilities would be due to loose manufacturing tolerances. This was apparently the problem with the early Raptor charging handles. Has anyone actually tried to seat a MKM upper on a different lower or visa versa? The real reason I mention this is for those that want one of Jeff's 45 degree selectors. As long as you have a USA LM4 or MKM (all are USA spec), it should fit fine.

#142 BoobieM4H

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 11:16 AM

That info is totally wrong. If I understand correctly, your source says I can put my mkm upper on a US spec lm4 lower? Not possible, unless maybe heavily modified. I posted pics somewhere showing they werent compatible. Internal parts, yes. But fire selector, no. Also the mkm fire selector detent pin is located in ALMOST the same area as a real AR. Its off by a few mm. But the lm4 detent is located in a completely different area. 90° difference. So no, it will not work.

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#143 BeachEMT

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 04:23 PM

Let me clarify, his knowledge is purely of the design of the MKM. The MKM receiver was SUPPOSED to fit the LM4. Any inconsistency between the two would be on Yih Kai (and the difference between CNC and casting). Apparently there must be a way to design a selector that is compatible with the MKM and LM4, because there is a very well respected company who is in the final stages of designing one. Maybe the person who told me all this will chime in. He has much more clout on here than I do.

#144 uscmCorps

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 05:06 PM

To clarify, I was the one that told BeachEMT the impression I had regarding the compatibility between the two systems. This was info relayed to me by both PTS and the manufacturer. Now that said, in spite of working closely with PTS on a daily basis, I haven't had a physical sample of the MKM to play/test since the commercial release of the  product. If there are gross compatibility issues, consider my comments in error. I'll find out more about the selector issues as the BAD selector for the LM4 (and from what I was last told worked with the MKM too) is supposed to be entering production shortly.

#145 BoobieM4H

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 07:33 PM

Here are some comparison pics of an lm4c and mkm

Left side in pics will be lm4c, right side mkm.

Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image[IMG]http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/20/magynuqe.jpg[/ Mkm lower/lm4c upper IMG][IMG]http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/20/6eje9a5e.jpg[/IMG]

Lm4c lower/mkm upper

[IMG]http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/20/hagu3e8y.jpg[/ Lm4c IMG][IMG]http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/20/4y2aby6u.jpg[/IMG]
Mkm
Posted Image

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Edited by BoobieM4H, 19 June 2014 - 07:35 PM.


#146 BoobieM4H

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 07:40 PM

Mkm upper, lm4c lower

Posted Image

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Edited by BoobieM4H, 19 June 2014 - 07:40 PM.


#147 uscmCorps

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 08:29 PM

Boobie, you are correct. Counter to my previous understanding based off what I was told, there is a significant dimensional change between. The MKM and the LM4. Per the in house PTS engineer, I received this response:

"The LM4 shaft and MKM shaft are not compatible for 2 reasons.

1.       The lower receiver on the LM4 is wider than that of the MKM. If you were to put an LM4 selector shaft in an MKM, you would have to align it perfectly centre for it to work. Non-centre alignment can cause the shaft not to operate correctly.
2.       The ball bearing that holds the shaft at its fixed positions on the LM4 is at a 3 o’clock position if looking at the left side of the rifle (rear of the shaft). On the MKM this ball bearing is at the 6 o’clock position (under side of the shaft)."

This triggered my question to them as to how this will pertain to our (PTS') soon to release BAD ambi-selector. Based on these facts clearly we won't have one shaft that'll accommodate both systems. So my query to them is, will the set include two shafts (one for the MKM and one for the LM4 spec), or will there be a dedicated LM4 BAD set and a dedicated MKM set? When I know more I'll be sure to update this thread accordingly since this is important info for both the PTS company reps as well as the consumer base.

#148 crowley

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Posted 21 June 2014 - 11:15 PM

Hi

I asked PTS about the upcoming  BAD a** Selector and they told me the correct Fact that the LM4 Selector is incompatible.
They will release a KWA LM4 AND MKM Version, (also a WA GBB Version which i will buy too)
They confirmed it to me via Email and Facebook

According to PTS its in Production atm, also the PTS Rainier Arms Raptor for KWA for Re-Stock

Would be nice if they could make the existing PTS Ambi Selector with the SSG Polymer Levers for the MKM too, i use it in my Inokatsu M4 and like it a lot! Very positive Control and clicking to each Position

So or so, please PTS, hurry up! These are the two most important Upgrades on my List ;)
I dont like the cheap Pot Metal (aka Full Metal Alloy) Charging Handle and the indefinite Selector.

Edited by crowley, 22 June 2014 - 12:40 AM.


#149 BeachEMT

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 04:49 PM

Hey crowley, just FYI uscmCorps is a rep for PTS (I will let him clarify his title if he'd like). Once the information is 100% official he will be posting it. As of a few days ago production had not started and they hadn't sorted out MKM compatibility.

#150 crowley

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 01:01 AM

View PostBeachEMT, on 23 June 2014 - 04:49 PM, said:

Hey crowley, just FYI uscmCorps is a rep for PTS (I will let him clarify his title if he'd like). Once the information is 100% official he will be posting it. As of a few days ago production had not started and they hadn't sorted out MKM compatibility.

Ah Ok, Thanks
This is only what PTS told via Facebook Message ;) I will wait for a official mesage ....

#151 uscmCorps

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 09:56 PM

I occasionally get misinformation from those involved with our projects. For example, we were originally told by Yih Kai the MKM would be hard anodized. And as far as I knew even at Shot Show, that was still the plan. Sadly it wasn't to be. I often don't find these things out until the product actually ships. In spite of being our license we don't always have as much control of the actual end product as we'd like. Sometimes, we get what we get. We do however petition for improvements and the OEM does try to accommodate us as much as they can.

#152 crowley

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 08:56 AM

It would be a Shame for present customers if the OEM will make new corrected Batches with anodized Finish!
We bought it like advertised and got a simple painted Receiver!
Do you think this can happen?
I think its a Price Question and maybe they had Problems to anodize the KWA standard Metall Alloy...its not 6061 or 7075 Billet;)

Have you News about the BAD a** Selector for LM4 and MKM?

Thanks

Edited by crowley, 03 July 2014 - 09:11 AM.


#153 uscmCorps

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 10:31 PM

As unfortunate as it is regarding finish, you still get a heck of a lot of bang for your buck with the MKM. The upper, lower and handguard is completely CNC'ed finish and yet still comes in around the same price point as the Magpul LM4 did which had an upper and lower receiver made from cast materials and a polymer handguard. Dollar for dollar, you get more with the MKM than you did with the Magpul LM4.

#154 BoobieM4H

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Posted 04 July 2014 - 12:01 AM

True...but saying its hard coat anodized, and it clearly isnt, is just false advertising.

#155 uscmCorps

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Posted 04 July 2014 - 01:04 AM

Absolutely. And at the time I was informed it was truthful advertising.  If you're told by both the manufacturer and the licensee it'll be a certain way and when the product ships it arrives with a completely different finish it's a difficult pill to swallow. I certainly don't appreciate it when it's both my face and name put out there behind these words. And when I complain the response I get is often ... *shrug* sorry it's out of our hands, we get what we get.

I'm equally frustrated in these circumstances.

#156 BoobieM4H

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Posted 04 July 2014 - 08:09 AM

Hey...im not mad at you! Still love my mkm!

#157 uscmCorps

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Posted 04 July 2014 - 03:03 PM

And I really appreciate all the gun smithing videos you do and the mods Jeff has been doing. If those 45 degree cores are ever available I'd really like to know. It sounds like it isn't in the plans for PTS to ever make it so if Jeff ever wants to make them for resale, we'd have no issue with it. I can certainly see a market for both 45 degree BAD selector cores and parkerized LM4 bolt carriers with "custom" engraved and the gas ports opened up. I know I'd be down to buy some.


#158 crowley

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 07:07 AM

uscmcorps

Any News about the BAD a** for KWA LM4 and MKM?
Do you know when the new Batch the PTS Rainier Arms Raptor is ready ? still out of Stock and no Info from PTS

No doubt, i love my MKM too:)  Maybe PTS should print new Manuals without the Hard coated anodized Info! And you can include CNCed finished Receiver and anodized Keymod Handguard to add new Highlights in the Manual;)

Edited by crowley, 07 July 2014 - 09:43 PM.


#159 uscmCorps

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 07:11 AM

No new updates.

I'll ask about the manual. I wrote the current one.

#160 crowley

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 07:28 AM

View PostuscmCorps, on 07 July 2014 - 07:11 AM, said:

No new updates.

I'll ask about the manual. I wrote the current one.

Thanks:)

Angry Gun has a new Ami Selector for KWA Out! It says for LM4 and MKM, but i think its a mistake again;)
The Selector Axis is for LM4 as you can see on the Pictures, so it wont run in the MKM!
Perhaps they dont know the Difference
I wait for the PTS :)




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