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SR10 Making "clacking" noise like BB is jammed

SR10 Clacking Jam Gears

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#1 Gavilan

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 06:51 PM

Hello All!

I have an SR10 that does not sound good.  When I fire it, it makes this "clacking" type of noise you can hear right at the end of the firing cycle.  People I've had look at it tell me it sounds like a BB is jammed. However, the gun fires fine and when you run an unjamming rod through the barrel there are no BB's jammed in the barrel.  At first I thought the pinion gear on the motor was stripped but after examining it and swapping out the motor with another KWA motor, it's still makes the same awful noise. Additionally, adjusting the motor using the screw on the grip does not make the sound go away.

My assumption is that the next place to look is the gear box but I dread cracking it open because I wouldn't know what to look for.   I'm posing this to you fine folks who have so much more experience than me.  Have any of you heard/seen this issue?  Any thoughts on what it might be and how to fix it?

I know I can bring it to a repair shop but the nearest one is two hours a way.  I can also ship it to KWA but it would be great if I could resolve this one on my own.

Again, the gun appears to fire fine but something is definitely wrong.

Thanks for any thoughts you might have!

#2 gcw360

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 08:06 PM

View PostGavilan, on 03 November 2013 - 06:51 PM, said:

Hello All!

I have an SR10 that does not sound good.  When I fire it, it makes this "clacking" type of noise you can hear right at the end of the firing cycle.  People I've had look at it tell me it sounds like a BB is jammed. However, the gun fires fine and when you run an unjamming rod through the barrel there are no BB's jammed in the barrel.  At first I thought the pinion gear on the motor was stripped but after examining it and swapping out the motor with another KWA motor, it's still makes the same awful noise. Additionally, adjusting the motor using the screw on the grip does not make the sound go away.

My assumption is that the next place to look is the gear box but I dread cracking it open because I wouldn't know what to look for.   I'm posing this to you fine folks who have so much more experience than me.  Have any of you heard/seen this issue?  Any thoughts on what it might be and how to fix it?

I know I can bring it to a repair shop but the nearest one is two hours a way.  I can also ship it to KWA but it would be great if I could resolve this one on my own.

Again, the gun appears to fire fine but something is definitely wrong.

Thanks for any thoughts you might have!
Hi Gavilan, welcome to the KWA Forums.  The clacking noise at the end of the cycle, does it sounds like the gearbox gears are still moving?  Perhaps unwinding?  If that's the case my guess is either a busted tooth on the underside of the bevel gear or a broken ARL.  Either way it requires opening the gearbox based on what you have posted here.

#3 Gavilan

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 08:40 PM

Thanks for the welcome - I'm enjoying being a KWA owner! (even despite this issue :D  ).

It's hard to say whether or not the gears are still moving or unwinding as I simply am not experienced enough to know what that would sound like.  The clack is very fast and ends fast so I don't think anything is spinning.  There are some great videos on the internet showing how to open these gearboxes up so it looks like I'll be putting them to good use.  I'll try to get gutsy enough to do it and take some pics.  If nothing is obvious, I'll post the pics for some additional help.

Thanks!

#4 SR105

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 03:17 PM

Hi Gavilan,
Has the FPS dropped along with the sound?

#5 Gavilan

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 04:00 PM

I'm not sure as I don't have a chrono to test it.  From a visuale perspective it doesn't appear so but obviously that's not very reliable.  If I can get to a chrono, I'll let you know.

#6 vanevery

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 05:58 PM

Can you post a video and let us all see and hear what is happening?

#7 Gavilan

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 08:31 PM

Hey all, well, I popped my gearbox cherry and delved in having never cracked one of these things open before. I think I found the problem.  Does this look right to you?  
http://www.flickr.co...04/10719382075/


Here's a closer look:  http://www.flickr.co...04/10719662373/


Take a look at the bevel gear - now, I don't know exactly what a bevel gear is supposed to look like but it doesn't take a genius to notice two of the teeth are completed broken and gone.  Unless it's supposed to be missing those two but based on pictures I'm seeing I don't think so.  So, I'm assuming I need to replace that gear - does that sound correct to you guys?  If so, does anyone have a recommendation where I can pick up just that gear and one that is compatible with my SR10?  I really don't want to spend $60 on an entirely new gear set if I can help it.

Strange think is, I don't know where the broken teeth went, didn't see 'em in there . . .

Also, while I have it open, any recommendations on some maintenance?  I know I should regrease it but is white lithium the standard for that?  Also, the O-Ring was really loose, came off a little too easily if you ask me.  Doesn't seem like a good airseal either so maybe I should replace it?  Maybe put in a Systema M130 while I'm at it ?? :D

Thanks!

Edited by Gavilan, 06 November 2013 - 08:35 PM.


#8 gcw360

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 04:17 PM

View PostGavilan, on 06 November 2013 - 08:31 PM, said:

Hey all, well, I popped my gearbox cherry and delved in having never cracked one of these things open before. I think I found the problem.  Does this look right to you?  
http://www.flickr.co...04/10719382075/


Here's a closer look:  http://www.flickr.co...04/10719662373/


Take a look at the bevel gear - now, I don't know exactly what a bevel gear is supposed to look like but it doesn't take a genius to notice two of the teeth are completed broken and gone.  Unless it's supposed to be missing those two but based on pictures I'm seeing I don't think so.  So, I'm assuming I need to replace that gear - does that sound correct to you guys?  If so, does anyone have a recommendation where I can pick up just that gear and one that is compatible with my SR10?  I really don't want to spend $60 on an entirely new gear set if I can help it.

Strange think is, I don't know where the broken teeth went, didn't see 'em in there . . .

Also, while I have it open, any recommendations on some maintenance?  I know I should regrease it but is white lithium the standard for that?  Also, the O-Ring was really loose, came off a little too easily if you ask me.  Doesn't seem like a good airseal either so maybe I should replace it?  Maybe put in a Systema M130 while I'm at it ?? :D

Thanks!
Yup. That would be the broken tooth on the bottom of the bevel gear I was referring to in my first post.  You may be able to by just the bevel from KWA.  I would give them a call.  Lonex makes decent gears too. The o-ring should be a replaced with a properly stretched Danco #14.  See here for stretching: http://www.kwausa.co...?showtopic=8177

I use Supper Lube rather than lithium grease.  I find it to be superior. See here: http://www.grainger....0131108002242:s

As far as the spring is concerned what FPS are you looking to achieve?

Hope this helps

#9 Gavilan

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 05:13 PM

Yeah, I saw that you correctly predicted what the issue was - nailed it - I'm impressed!

I've reached out to KWA and I believe I can buy just the bevel gear for around $28.50 (this includes shipping) which seems a bit steep.  I looked for a Lonex bevel gear and can only find the gear sets.  I did see an ICS bevel gear for a good price - any thoughts on that?

Thanks for the tips on the O-ring and grease, I appreciate it.

As for FPS, the hotter, the better. The field I play on has no FPS limits per say but anything above 500FPS needs approval from the range master.  So, I would put an m140 in there if I felt comfortable with it but I don't want to put that much stress on the gearbox (nor that much drain on the battery).  An m130 seems like a nice compromise.

#10 gcw360

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 05:34 PM

View PostGavilan, on 07 November 2013 - 05:13 PM, said:

Yeah, I saw that you correctly predicted what the issue was - nailed it - I'm impressed!

I've reached out to KWA and I believe I can buy just the bevel gear for around $28.50 (this includes shipping) which seems a bit steep.  I looked for a Lonex bevel gear and can only find the gear sets.  I did see an ICS bevel gear for a good price - any thoughts on that?

Thanks for the tips on the O-ring and grease, I appreciate it.

As for FPS, the hotter, the better. The field I play on has no FPS limits per say but anything above 500FPS needs approval from the range master.  So, I would put an m140 in there if I felt comfortable with it but I don't want to put that much stress on the gearbox (nor that much drain on the battery).  An m130 seems like a nice compromise.
Thank you and you're welcome. The gearbox can handle up to an m150 if properly installed (shimming properly at this tension is critical).  That said a good m130 will put you around 480 FPS with .2's. If you want to cut done on the shipping you can either ask KWA to send the part regular mail or spend $30 and you the FREESHIP code on your order.  Guarder makes descent bevel gear too.  But frankly I prefer KWA.

#11 vanevery

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 07:01 PM

.Gavilan.
gcw360 and KWA staff really know their stuff.
They got me out of a pinch more than once when I was learning to tech.

A few words of advice.
Keep your tech work simple.
No need to try anything complicated your first time opening a gearbox.

Suggestions:
- New Danco #14 O-ring.

- Shimming: Do it but keep it simple.
A .02mm shim underneath the Spur Gear and a .01mm shim underneath the Sector Gear will get you by.
Leave the Bevel Gear alone for now.

- Clean everything inside your gearbox.
Pay special attention to cleaning the Cylinder, Cylinder Nozzle, and Air Nozzle.

-Do Not lose any tiny gearbox springs.

- Tighten Down Piston Head screw.

- When re-greasing, use the smallest amount of grease/oil in your Cylinder as possible.
I use such a small amount, I have to double check to male sure the Cylinder actually has the lube in it.
The only reason to even lube the inside of the Cylinder is to protect the Piston Head Rubber O-ring.

- Be patient.

Edited by vanevery, 07 November 2013 - 07:03 PM.


#12 Gavilan

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 09:33 AM

Thanks for the tips vanevery, I can use every piece of advice I can get!

I went ahead and called KWA and ordered a bevel gear and an m130 spring from them and used the FREESHIP coupon code so that was nice.   I also ordered some Super Lube.

I'll grab some O-Rings from Ace Hardware here soon.

I asked a KWA tech if any additional modification was needed to the gearbox to make sure the m130 spring didn't damage anything or cause any problems and they said no.  With that in mind, does everyone still feel I need to shim the gearbox for the KWA m130 even though the KWA techs essentially said mods were not needed?

Thanks!

Edited by Gavilan, 08 November 2013 - 08:27 PM.






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