Jump to content


HOW TO VIDEO: Trigger Job

KWA lm4 tRIGGER Pull Modification

  • Please log in to reply
15 replies to this topic

#1 akiraspeedstar

akiraspeedstar

    Guru

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,130 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Country:

Posted 19 November 2012 - 09:08 PM


Edited by akiraspeedstar, 20 November 2012 - 01:05 PM.


#2 dos_Santos

dos_Santos

    Enthusiast

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 175 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Country:

Posted 20 November 2012 - 02:42 AM

Just saw this on airsoftpacific.  Nice work.

#3 Chuck S

Chuck S

    Guru

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,150 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cleveland, Ohio
  • Country:

Posted 20 November 2012 - 04:29 AM

Don't do this!

This is a highly dangerous modifications to a "real steel" AR15!  In this rifle you can use an extended grip screw rather than a set screw inside the receiver but the concept is the same:

The trigger sear does not fully engage.  Yep, the trigger pull is shorter and easier 'cuz the trigger is partially pulled all the time.

In the AR15/M16 the sear geometry causes the hammer to move very slightly to the rear before the sear surfaces disengage.  This is a safety requirement and allows the trigger to reset from a partial pull if you release it before firing.  This stupid modification eliminates that part of the sear engagement rendering the weapon highly unsafe.

This is a dumb modification to an AR15 and not any better with the LM4.  Negligent discharge of an airsoft rifle is not without consequences...

Sorry for no "smileys" with the words "dumb" and "stupid"...  But one here:  ;)

-- Chuck

#4 akiraspeedstar

akiraspeedstar

    Guru

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,130 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Country:

Posted 20 November 2012 - 07:09 AM

Hmmm..didn't find any of this information when I was looking into a trigger modification. Ill look into it more and review my trigger setup.

I put the video on Private for now until I can investigate further.

UPDATE: So I can't seem to find any information on the dangers of this modification. Please in no way take it as me saying you're wrong, Im just trying to fully understand.  

So the danger as you mentioned is that if you complete a partial pull and release without firing, it may possibly fire (ex. due to impact)?

Edited by akiraspeedstar, 20 November 2012 - 07:58 AM.


#5 dos_Santos

dos_Santos

    Enthusiast

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 175 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Country:

Posted 20 November 2012 - 12:14 PM

This is not an AR-15 forum and the dangers are not nearly the same... :/  I highly doubt that the handful of people that will even perform this modification will ever compare to the novices already present in airsoft.  There are AD's all the time in airsoft.  Not to minimize the potential "dangers" of this mod, but we aren't dealing with real AR's here.  It's good to be educated of course...

#6 Chuck S

Chuck S

    Guru

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,150 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cleveland, Ohio
  • Country:

Posted 20 November 2012 - 12:35 PM

There is certainly no fatal danger involved in this but the set screw is "pulling the trigger" slightly and the sear surfaces are not fully engaged.

Yeah, it's a great trigger in terms of weight.  Just Dangerous (with a capital D) for real guns and dangerous (small d) in airsoft.

Gimmick hair triggers tend to "discharge" without notice or little attention.  No one has been killed by an airsoft pellet I'm aware of and "You'll shoot your eye out!" ;) may be trite.  But the possibility is greatly increased by this method.  Ya really don't want to d*ck with the sear engagagement in any Gun or gun.

-- Chuck

#7 akiraspeedstar

akiraspeedstar

    Guru

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,130 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Country:

Posted 20 November 2012 - 01:08 PM

Understood, with my trigger I still have some of that play left over as it's not at the brink of the breaking point. I also was slapping my receiver, doing small drops onto the stock, etc. in attempts to make it fire and haven't had it fire in that situation.

#8 freon

freon

    Enthusiast

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 56 posts
  • Country:

Posted 20 November 2012 - 02:52 PM

A game area has been shut down over here due to someone shooting out someone else's eye. Granted that it was due to poor eye protection and a hot gun, the bottom line is that someone lost an eye.

Though we may be a civilian group, my team tries its best to uphold gun safety rules as best we can because we've seen so many of our former members transition from airsoft to real firearms. Building the habits and safety awareness should start with airsoft and so I highly recommend treating airsoft guns with the same respect and care you would afford to a real firearm and treat accidental discharges in airsoft the same way.

My 2 cents.

That said, the trigger mod looks interesting but I would see it better used for competition shooting vs combat shooting. Maybe I'm wrong.

More encouragement for Akira, Boobie, and the others working on mods for the LM4 to keep at it because without you guys, we wouldn't have any of these cool mods.

View PostChuck S, on 20 November 2012 - 12:35 PM, said:

There is certainly no fatal danger involved in this but the set screw is "pulling the trigger" slightly and the sear surfaces are not fully engaged.

Yeah, it's a great trigger in terms of weight.  Just Dangerous (with a capital D) for real guns and dangerous (small d) in airsoft.

Gimmick hair triggers tend to "discharge" without notice or little attention.  No one has been killed by an airsoft pellet I'm aware of and "You'll shoot your eye out!" ;) may be trite.  But the possibility is greatly increased by this method.  Ya really don't want to d*ck with the sear engagagement in any Gun or gun.

-- Chuck


#9 Chuck S

Chuck S

    Guru

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,150 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cleveland, Ohio
  • Country:

Posted 20 November 2012 - 06:02 PM

If I was KWA I'd not want the liability of this dangerous modification on my technical forum.  But I ain't KWA, of course.  ;)

-- Chuck

#10 2good2betrue77

2good2betrue77

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 19 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Country:

Posted 21 November 2012 - 01:10 AM

Well, I never planned on doing this modification but your video did help me learn how to disassemble the trigger properly.

Thanks for posting it.

#11 BoobieM4H

BoobieM4H

    Guru

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,046 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:SAN JOSE, CA
  • Interests:IF IT USES GREEN GAS..I MAKE IT SHOOT BETTER!
  • Country:

Posted 22 November 2012 - 05:49 PM

Ive done a trigger mod..not this one. I actually shorten the trigger pull by removing material in the hammer and back side if trigger. It doesnt change the geometry of the trigger or hammer..but i get a shorter and clean break ..and a better trigger reset.  I would like a stiffer trigger spring tho

( o Y o )



#12 freon

freon

    Enthusiast

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 56 posts
  • Country:

Posted 24 November 2012 - 01:27 PM

View PostBoobieM4H, on 22 November 2012 - 05:49 PM, said:

Ive done a trigger mod..not this one. I actually shorten the trigger pull by removing material in the hammer and back side if trigger. It doesnt change the geometry of the trigger or hammer..but i get a shorter and clean break ..and a better trigger reset.  I would like a stiffer trigger spring tho

( o Y o )

Care to post a video on that? :P

#13 BoobieM4H

BoobieM4H

    Guru

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,046 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:SAN JOSE, CA
  • Interests:IF IT USES GREEN GAS..I MAKE IT SHOOT BETTER!
  • Country:

Posted 25 November 2012 - 12:24 AM

i already di

View Postfreon, on 24 November 2012 - 01:27 PM, said:

Care to post a video on that? :P

i already did..checkout my youtube channel..same user name as here

#14 AzizaVFR

AzizaVFR

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 16 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Red Rock, AZ
  • Interests:Motorcycling, machining, hot sauce, and Single Malt Scotch.
  • Country:

Posted 27 November 2012 - 10:06 AM

The standard trigger with the LM4 could be classified as a two-stage trigger, versus the single stage of the GI trigger.  If you pull slowly, you will feel it hit a slight bit of resistance, then just a bit more breaks the shot.  The feel of this trigger is close to the Geiselle Super Semi-Automatic trigger, http://geissele.com/...ssatrigger.aspx

It depends on how you personally manipulate the trigger.  All my AR-15 have two-stage Geissele hi-speed match triggers in them.  I like the feeling of having that decision point between committing to the shot, or backing off safely.  The wife has the Geissele Super three 3-Gun.  Once my finger goes on the trigger, it does not break contact until all rounds are fired for that salvo.  If the dimension were the same for the pin placement, I would have replaced the whole trigger assembly with a Geissele Super-Select Fire group.

#15 uscmCorps

uscmCorps

    Magpul PTS

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 141 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:SoCal
  • Country:

Posted 28 November 2012 - 11:47 AM

While I have run Geisselle SSA's in all my guns for years (and now run S3Gs in all of them) ... this OEM trigger is not by any means a SSA. It has the potential to come close but it's still a far cry from that. The pre travel slack take up on the OEM trigger is hella gritty, comparatively heavy and most frustratingly does not reset itself to the fully forwards position on a partial trigger pull. For example, if you pull the OEM trigger to the breaking point, but do not actually go beyond that, the trigger will not reset itself forwards. That is really bad and I have relayed this in conversations with Allen. Experienced shooters know how a trigger feels. Experienced shooters know how to correctly reset a trigger. If you KWA (or anyone else for that matter) figures out a way to have the trigger reset correctly that would be a huge improvement. That plus removing the grittiness of the trigger would go a long way to making it a decent trigger. As is ... it is not.

Another mod I've been considering is removing the pre-travel completely, so it's more like my S3G trigger. Personally I like what I'm seeing in Akira's video. But I'm not crazy about the fact that the selector can be set to safe with the hammer not reset.

#16 Madbull Mike

Madbull Mike

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 3 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Country:

Posted 17 December 2013 - 04:27 AM

View PostBoobieM4H, on 25 November 2012 - 12:24 AM, said:

i already di

i already did..checkout my youtube channel..same user name as here
I have watch a lot of your video's and i can't find where you did it?





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: KWA, lm4, tRIGGER, Pull, Modification

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users