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Kwa USP, HK45 , or MK23 ? Please Help.


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#1 NickGoose

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 08:10 PM

Hi guys, I am brand new to this forum but in no way am I new to airsoft. I owned 25+ guns from KWA/KSC to Tokyo Marui etc, etc.. But when I did play I always loved KWA's reliability and durability. I currently am looking at the three stated above in the title. I've been doing some research and I see that there are issues here and there with the HK series. I've been out of the game for a while now so all of the new guns out now I no nothing about. I just wanna know what gun is the best out of the three and not have to worry about anything when I first receive it. One of the reasons I want to purchase an airsoft gun again is to do some backyard target shooting a few times a week. But I'm mainly looking to just customize and show this gun off. Basically a little project for myself. So I would greatly appreciate any advice and input that anyone gives. Thanks!

#2 Kerberos

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 03:09 AM

View PostNickGoose, on 12 September 2013 - 08:10 PM, said:

Hi guys, I am brand new to this forum but in no way am I new to airsoft. I owned 25+ guns from KWA/KSC to Tokyo Marui etc, etc.. But when I did play I always loved KWA's reliability and durability. I currently am looking at the three stated above in the title. I've been doing some research and I see that there are issues here and there with the HK series. I've been out of the game for a while now so all of the new guns out now I no nothing about. I just wanna know what gun is the best out of the three and not have to worry about anything when I first receive it. One of the reasons I want to purchase an airsoft gun again is to do some backyard target shooting a few times a week. But I'm mainly looking to just customize and show this gun off. Basically a little project for myself. So I would greatly appreciate any advice and input that anyone gives. Thanks!

Hey Nickgoose,

First off, all three guns has their faults and pros. I won't list all of them but lets go over the basics.

Power - MK23 is highest at 380FPS with greengas /.20g BBs. Next is USP MATCH at 350FPS.

Ergonomics - HK45 *(back straps can be changed) known to have the double feed/jam issues. Can be resolved by polishing feed ramp. Do not oil feed ramp.

Reliability - MK23 *(known to have the slide catch wear down, otherwise not too many issues)

Customization- USP Tactical *(Has a 20mm rail, barrel extension is attachable) MK23 needs special rail.

HK45 needs a threaded barrel. Standard USP needs special rail.

Looks - USP MATCH - *(slide catch lever tends to be brittle at times) Ambidextrous gun with Weighted end. Looks are complete, possible to polish slide silver for the Tomb Raider looks.


(My opinion)
I personally use the MK23 as I have large hands and I enjoy using a hand cannon on the field. It did not give me any problems outside the box. Only issue I have is over time, the slide catch on the slide tends wear down to a slanted angle which makes the slide catch lever slip off after the last round. So you can easily remedy this by using a sharp tool or dremal to grind or shave it down to a 90 degree angle.  The second gun I use is the USP Match, of course it is because it is ambi and has the looks, weight, and a very good trigger pull thats great for speed shooting (compared to the MK23). You cant customize it as much. The MK23, if you are lucky to get the steel slide, the MK23 SOCOM 16mm barrel extension with a replica LAM unit you are set. Otherwise the lower powered USP Tactical has a threaded barrel and an underbarrel rail for any attachments. Its really up to you but try visit your airsoft shop that has one and try hold/shoot each gun.

Edited by Kerberos, 13 September 2013 - 03:14 AM.


#3 Chuck S

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 03:30 AM

Goose --

Do you have any of these guns in cartridge models?  If so get the airsoft to match so your backyard work translates to your real pistol?  Otherwise I echo the size/weight comments.

Customization (AKA Barbie For Boys) is a foreign concept for me (now, anyway!) but as long as you're not messing with the mechanicals is harmless.  KWA makes highly accurate airsoft reproductions and the fire controls of the HK pistols (decocker/safety) add complexity to the pistol not found in those pistols that mimic the Glock (ATP?).

The MK23 is gigantic in both .45ACP and 6mm versions.  It is clumsy for me to handle as is the HK45 with the effeminate finger grooves on the front strap..  The HK45 Compact, on the other hand is very nice but I'm unaware of it being available in a KWA airsoft model.

If possible "try before you buy."

-- Chuck

#4 Kerberos

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 03:59 AM

I would also add that as far as the grip goes for the normal user, the USP Match does have a very comfy grip due to the enlarge magwell design.

Just like Chuck and I said, try the guns out first. Pictures and what people say don't do justice on how a gun feels to each user

To tell you the truth about owning a customized airsoft handgun, a lot of the long time airsofters (like me too) would make the Hi-Capa series from Marui their pride and joy of customized race guns and also Western Arms owners. The HK series is alittle limited to what you can really customize extensively. Although I do know Strike Recon Union is going to make a futuristic slide for the MK23 later. (They have slides for the M-Series out now and Airsoft Surgeon has some custom models too based on the SAI ARMS.

If you are looking for performance, overall the HK series are well rounded to begin with although inner barrels to hop up upgrades are  common too. Aftermarket slides are also another thing you can buy and outer barrels for an authentic look and weight.

Edited by Kerberos, 13 September 2013 - 12:45 PM.


#5 Boss302

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 10:59 AM

I personally like the MK23.  I bought the MK23 when they first came out about 2 years ago and I did experience problems with the slide catch and slide wearing down.  I ended up selling it but I recently bought another one (against my better judgement) and haven't experienced any problems with it at all.  As for the size, it is not terribly big but it's not very ergonomic.  Also I don't know if it will be a deal breaker but the MK23 is also the most expensive of the three.

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#6 Kerberos

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 12:44 PM

View PostBoss302, on 13 September 2013 - 10:59 AM, said:

I personally like the MK23.  I bought the MK23 when they first came out about 2 years ago and I did experience problems with the slide catch and slide wearing down.  I ended up selling it but I recently bought another one (against my better judgement) and haven't experienced any problems with it at all.  As for the size, it is not terribly big but it's not very ergonomic.  Also I don't know if it will be a deal breaker but the MK23 is also the most expensive of the three.

I love that Hogue grip you put on! That does give it a more current look! I might have to do that too haha!

#7 Boss302

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 12:51 PM

View PostKerberos, on 13 September 2013 - 12:44 PM, said:



I love that Hogue grip you put on! That does give it a more current look! I might have to do that too haha!
I had originally bought it for my Glock 17 gen 4.  But after putting it on, it made the grip worse on top of that it made the gun look "blocky".  So after taking it off I saw the MK23 and I thought hmm...

#8 NickGoose

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 01:10 PM

View PostKerberos, on 13 September 2013 - 03:09 AM, said:

Hey Nickgoose,

First off, all three guns has their faults and pros. I won't list all of them but lets go over the basics.

Power - MK23 is highest at 380FPS with greengas /.20g BBs. Next is USP MATCH at 350FPS.

Ergonomics - HK45 *(back straps can be changed) known to have the double feed/jam issues. Can be resolved by polishing feed ramp. Do not oil feed ramp.

Reliability - MK23 *(known to have the slide catch wear down, otherwise not too many issues)

Customization- USP Tactical *(Has a 20mm rail, barrel extension is attachable) MK23 needs special rail.

HK45 needs a threaded barrel. Standard USP needs special rail.

Looks - USP MATCH - *(slide catch lever tends to be brittle at times) Ambidextrous gun with Weighted end. Looks are complete, possible to polish slide silver for the Tomb Raider looks.


(My opinion)
I personally use the MK23 as I have large hands and I enjoy using a hand cannon on the field. It did not give me any problems outside the box. Only issue I have is over time, the slide catch on the slide tends wear down to a slanted angle which makes the slide catch lever slip off after the last round. So you can easily remedy this by using a sharp tool or dremal to grind or shave it down to a 90 degree angle.  The second gun I use is the USP Match, of course it is because it is ambi and has the looks, weight, and a very good trigger pull thats great for speed shooting (compared to the MK23). You cant customize it as much. The MK23, if you are lucky to get the steel slide, the MK23 SOCOM 16mm barrel extension with a replica LAM unit you are set. Otherwise the lower powered USP Tactical has a threaded barrel and an underbarrel rail for any attachments. Its really up to you but try visit your airsoft shop that has one and try hold/shoot each gun.

View PostChuck S, on 13 September 2013 - 03:30 AM, said:

Goose --

Do you have any of these guns in cartridge models?  If so get the airsoft to match so your backyard work translates to your real pistol?  Otherwise I echo the size/weight comments.

Customization (AKA Barbie For Boys) is a foreign concept for me (now, anyway!) but as long as you're not messing with the mechanicals is harmless.  KWA makes highly accurate airsoft reproductions and the fire controls of the HK pistols (decocker/safety) add complexity to the pistol not found in those pistols that mimic the Glock (ATP?).

The MK23 is gigantic in both .45ACP and 6mm versions.  It is clumsy for me to handle as is the HK45 with the effeminate finger grooves on the front strap..  The HK45 Compact, on the other hand is very nice but I'm unaware of it being available in a KWA airsoft model.

If possible "try before you buy."

-- Chuck

View PostBoss302, on 13 September 2013 - 10:59 AM, said:

I personally like the MK23.  I bought the MK23 when they first came out about 2 years ago and I did experience problems with the slide catch and slide wearing down.  I ended up selling it but I recently bought another one (against my better judgement) and haven't experienced any problems with it at all.  As for the size, it is not terribly big but it's not very ergonomic.  Also I don't know if it will be a deal breaker but the MK23 is also the most expensive of the three.

View PostKerberos, on 13 September 2013 - 03:59 AM, said:

I would also add that as far as the grip goes for the normal user, the USP Match does have a very comfy grip due to the enlarge magwell design.

Just like Chuck and I said, try the guns out first. Pictures and what people say don't do justice on how a gun feels to each user

To tell you the truth about owning a customized airsoft handgun, a lot of the long time airsofters (like me too) would make the Hi-Capa series from Marui their pride and joy of customized race guns and also Western Arms owners. The HK series is alittle limited to what you can really customize extensively. Although I do know Strike Recon Union is going to make a futuristic slide for the MK23 later. (They have slides for the M-Series out now and Airsofters Surgeon has some custom models too based on the SAI ARMS.

If you are looking for performance, overall the HK series are well rounded to begin with although inner barrels to hop up upgrades are  common too. Aftermarket slides are also another thing you can buy and outer barrels for an authentic look and weight.

Okay, first off thank you all for the responses I do appreciate it. I'm going to try to respond to all 3 of you so I apologize if it's a lot to read.

Kerberos,

Basically I put the three in order in which I would buy. First, on the list was the HK45 because the gun just looks bada**, the groves on the grip, the slide design is awesome, it has the 16mm threaded barrel, it also seems to shoot at a pretty high fps from what I seen on youtube, and just like the other two guns it has the bottom rail so I can attach the green laser I wanna buy. The cons to this gun though is the jamming issues you were talking about and that was what I was reading on this website and others as well. This is basically what is stopping me from purchasing this gun and why I had to put up this thread. But this is definitely the gun I like the best out of the three when it comes to looks.
Second, is the MK23. I must say I always loved this gun its fairly big so it's definitely intimidating. When it comes to fps this gun is a monster, I seen a few videos on youtube on this gun as well. It also has the 16mm threaded barrel, like the HK 45, and the bottom rail which is a plus. As for the LAM Unit that's what I was considering attaching to it because it would look absolutely sick. But now that you stated it has issues with the slide catch. That threw me off a little bit.
Third, is the standard USP. I don't know if I confused you or if you misread what I posted. The USP Match is cool looking with the compensator and the USP Tactical I actually owned at one point, gun was awesome btw. But I was just looking at the standard USP, I think the gun is awesome looking but I did not see any threaded barrels I can replace for this so I can't put a suppressor which is my biggest con. The only plus side is I can rip of the orange tip but that's about it. Other pros are the bottom rail and the fps isn't bad at all on this gun either.
With that being said I do agree with you as of being able to fully customize Tokyo Marui's guns. But in no way am I trying to spend $200 on a gun, that's plastic no less, and then buying metal upgrades which will cost another few hundred. I owned the chrome M9 and chrome Desert Eagle. Loved both of em, but I couldn't use green gas only that 134a gas. The only way I could use the green gas was with the metal upgrade which was another $200 so I wasn't trying trying to go down that route.
As for going to an airsoft shop, there are none around in the area I live in so unfortunately I can't test out any of these before I buy it. I feel like I might have to take the chance and just buy one of em its not like I'm buying a car or a house lol.

Chuck S,
I honestly wish i owned the real steel version of one of these then I wouldn't of had to make this thread lol. As of the "try before you buy" I wish I could do that, it would save me all of this research. But just like I told Kerberos, there are no airsoft shops around me so I'm kinda beat with that. And as for customization I wasn't looking to replace anything internally. I should of been more clear on what I wanted to actually customize. Basically I just wanna get a pistol rail interface system which, if you don't know, allows you to put something on a bottom rail, a side rail, and a top rail. I wanted to put a green laser on the bottom, possibly a little flashlight on the side, and a dot sight on the top. Then I wanted to finish it off with a suppressor.  I told you guys I wanna show this gun off !! Haha.

Boss302,
First off your gun looks awesome !! I must ask, did you put the 16-14mm converter on it ? I could not, for the life of me, find a 16mm suppressor other than a $10 plastic one on evike. I remember there was a VFC 16mm suppressor but I'm not sure if they make that anymore. Unless the one you have on your gun is the one I am talking about. Another question, is that a different grip you have on it? Your making me wanna buy the MK23 right now..

So in conclusion, I appreciate all your guys input. I just need to realize and understand that I will not find the "perfect" airsoft gun. Everything in this world has flaws, so I need to stop being a perfectionist for a day and make a purchase. Hence why I've been through over 25 airsoft guns. I bought and sold guns left and right lol.
I'm kinda leaning towards the MK23. I'm going to give it a few more days and make a decision.

Thanks again guys !

#9 Huntsman82

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 01:41 PM

I have owned all three of these replicas. For me it would be the HK45 hands down. It has the new hop up system, which I have found to be much more accurate and consistent. Also the ergonomics and the way it fits in my hand are really nice as well. The USP would be my second choice. It feels a little more boxy but other than that it is a great gun. I wouldn't let a threaded barrel sway your decision either. I removed the threaded barrel portion from my HK45. I have never had success running a can on a GBB pistol. Even though it isn't much, the extra weight hurts the performance of the gun. At least for me it has. All in all these are three great guns. I say just get the one that looks the best to you.

#10 NickGoose

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 01:58 PM

View PostHuntsman82, on 13 September 2013 - 01:41 PM, said:

I have owned all three of these replicas. For me it would be the HK45 hands down. It has the new hop up system, which I have found to be much more accurate and consistent. Also the ergonomics and the way it fits in my hand are really nice as well. The USP would be my second choice. It feels a little more boxy but other than that it is a great gun. I wouldn't let a threaded barrel sway your decision either. I removed the threaded barrel portion from my HK45. I have never had success running a can on a GBB pistol. Even though it isn't much, the extra weight hurts the performance of the gun. At least for me it has. All in all these are three great guns. I say just get the one that looks the best to you.

Huntsman82,

Thanks for the response ! Honestly man, I love the look of all 3 of em. The HK45 does look the best to me but the other 2 are awesome looking as well. The reason why I haven't bought the HK45 yet is because of the jamming issues, have you encountered any issues like that ? And yes you are 100% correct on not letting the threaded barrel alter my decision on purchasing the USP. I just want to fully customize one of these guns to the tee. What do you think of the MK23 ?

#11 Kerberos

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 03:50 PM

Nice to see you back Nickgoose!

The HK45 I have to correct you there, the threaded orange barrel actually is just a glued on tip. I cannot guarantee that tip will stay on with a suppressor and rough handling the gun. So the HK45 does not have a one peice outer barrel.

The only guns that do is the USP tactical and the MK23 but all barrels are plastic solid peice. The HK45 and standard USP or USP Match can fit an aftermarket CNC threaded metal outer barrel for durability.

As for placing a LAM or LAM like device for the MK23 would look awesome. Mind you that the slide issue can be fixed time to time or buy a nice steel slide and outer barrel for 360.00 ish.
You can find 16mm cans for it on Asia airsoft websites. Tons of it. Just make sure it says 16mm despite you'll see similar designs in 14mm. Or you buy the adapter for it.

Now sorta counterproductive, but Marui is releasing a HK45 soon. I'm honestly holding out for that and buy every reinforced parts :3

Now that mentioned you used a Desert Eagle, if you are Ok with a big grip like that then the MK23 should be fine. It's a rugged gun to be honest. And handles well despite its size.

Edited by Kerberos, 13 September 2013 - 03:53 PM.


#12 Huntsman82

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 07:22 PM

Yea I just recently had this issue but I have yet to polish my feed ramp. This is my second HK45 and the other one had no problems




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