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Wanna Upgrade my G36

Parts Upgrade Barrel G36c Gears Springs Rof Fps

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#21 Seraphim_fdlt

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 07:44 PM

The km barrels are so expensive but I guess you pay for what you get......

#22 philsaudio

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 08:38 AM

View PostAllizard, on 06 July 2012 - 11:06 AM, said:

Personally I would preferred a KM barrel.  

Like I've said previously, 15c is what we recommend.  Keep in mind there are cause and effect when you step out of specification.  As long as you understand that you can do whatever you want.


I do understand why KWA would limit the  "c" spec to that of a NiMH. It is a sort of governor on the GB to prevent the LiPO from causing repairs to be required. Hmmmmmm Why?  Why say it is "LiPO ready" when it is really only ready for low performance LiPO that has similar current delivery specs to the NiMH battery?  I FEEL ( IMHO) in the KWA case "LiPO Ready" is really more of a misleading marketing statement than truth.



http://kwausa.com/fo...indpost&p=80596

Peace

#23 niko_gpsy

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 09:08 AM

View Postphilsaudio, on 07 July 2012 - 08:38 AM, said:



I do understand why KWA would limit the  "c" spec to that of a NiMH. It is a sort of governor on the GB to prevent the LiPO from causing repairs to be required. Hmmmmmm Why?  Why say it is "LiPO ready" when it is really only ready for low performance LiPO that has similar current delivery specs to the NiMH battery?  I FEEL ( IMHO) in the KWA case "LiPO Ready" is really more of a misleading marketing statement than truth.



http://kwausa.com/fo...indpost&p=80596

Peace
Soooooo........................in your opinion, when an AEG is "lipo ready" it shouldn't have battery output capacity limits.  In that case I can stick a battery capable of delivering a 200amp battery without any possibility of failure?
And although KWA does not recommend out-of-spec batteries, I have used batteries that can produce up to 80amps (30-40C) without the aid of mosfets without issues.  You are making an assumption that just because KWA gives you a base point on their recommendations that their guns can only handle 12-15C batteries.  Ask anyone on this forums and they will tell you the same thing I am telling you.

#24 greatwatermelon

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 10:25 AM

Most of my buddies run 20C even up to 25C on their KWA's without mosfets, which gets them past 30A. I think it's a bit excessive but they haven't had any problems.

Running 9.6v nun-chucks myself (for the slower ROF), I notice a significant difference between my 9.6v and my Kong Power 11.1V 15C... We're talking about 18 rps vs 23-24 rps.  My buddies using 11.1V 20C+ are hitting 30 rps.

@Shogo: The airsofters that have been emerging these past 3-4 years I have to say are really spoiled. Looking back 7-8 years ago, attaining 30 rps at 400 fps was quite a feat. (Especially during a time where hi-caps were not common.) Nowadays, it's expected as a standard. ;)

#25 philsaudio

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 07:31 AM

View Postniko_gpsy, on 07 July 2012 - 09:08 AM, said:

Soooooo........................in your opinion, when an AEG is "lipo ready" it shouldn't have battery output capacity limits.  In that case I can stick a battery capable of delivering a 200amp battery without any possibility of failure?
<snip>

Lets be clear here. I am just trying to explain what you said means in simple electrical terms. A battery capable of infinite current will not have even a microamp of current flow if the load is infinite. It is all a load matching issue. Either the source is the limiter of the current flow or the load is, or in the real world both but usually more one than the other and sometimes a lot more than the other.

If you chose to let your gearbox be the limiter fine, use the 200 amp battery and tune it so it works well that way. The motor may draw 200 amps for a few microseconds without complaint.  Maybe this will clarify this a bit.http://kwausa.com/fo...indpost&p=80596

If you dont want your gearbox to be the limiter then fine spec a battery with the built in limiter and dont warranty anyone who surpasses your spec, which is exactly what is going on here.

If this were a car one would have a huge 700 HP engine and expect the driver to control the speed and the KWA would have an engine that controls the driver top speed.  Different strokes for different folks just lets not mix to two up and tell everyone there is a 700 hp engine in there if the engine can not get the gas to put out 700 HP. Cabiche?.

#26 niko_gpsy

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 08:57 AM

I can put racing fuel in a 700HP engine and get 750HP and if I blow my head gasket or shatter a piston, I wonder if that car manufacturer would cover my repairs under warranty?
You can "over-clock" a KWA AEG with a bigger battery but there are always consequences and it's not because it's a KWA.  It's that way for any non-KWA custome lipo ready builds that I have done. I have recently built a CYMA Sig556 with KWA gears and it was built with a 24RPS (sweet spot) at 420FPS using 11.1V 15C 1600MAH battery.  The first thing the owner did was slap on a 30C battery and it shot a 28RPS+ for a little over 3K rounds.  The end result was a stripped piston.
The battery is ALWAYS going to be a limiting factor even for guns that are lipo ready with mosfets.

Please answer me this.  In your opinion, how high of an output battery should an AEG able to use before it's considered a "lipo ready" gun?

#27 philsaudio

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 09:47 AM

View Postniko_gpsy, on 10 July 2012 - 08:57 AM, said:

<snip>
Please answer me this.  In your opinion, how high of an output battery should an AEG able to use before it's considered a "lipo ready" gun?

The GB should function without premature failure with a battery that is sized so the voltage drop under load would be no more than 5%. That is the spec that most electrical components are designed against. 0% being ideal. The voltage should not change under load and any gun that is rated to run at a spec voltage should  never fail if the operating voltage is not exceeded. NEVER. As a matter of fact most devices are spec'd to run at the specified voltage PLUS some percent. I

If the current drawn from the source is to much you just spec'd to high of a voltage source for the device.   Plain and simple.

By specifying a wimpy battery the designers are counting on the voltage falling below some level in order for the gun to be reliable.

If it can't handle that it is not ready for a voltage source at that voltage. Specifying 22 AWG or thin wire and a 220 V source to drop half the voltage for a 110 volt device is not the same as putting the 110 V device on a stiff 110V circuit.

It is a game you choose. Why be so embarassed when Dorothy pulls back the curtain and calls it for what it is.
Carver put resistors in series with his amp to get a "tube sound"
PA horns have light bulbs in series with the driver to protect it during feedback by droping voltage across the light bulb.
KWA specs 15C lipo's

It is what it is. Why try to hide behind an illusion of I am wrong and you are right?

#28 niko_gpsy

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 10:09 AM

So are you ready for a challenge then?

#29 philsaudio

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 12:56 PM

View Postniko_gpsy, on 10 July 2012 - 10:09 AM, said:

So are you ready for a challenge then?
If this was addressed to me the only challenge I want is getting this G36 working again. New parts should be here soon. I really don't need to have this discussion now that I know that my G36 needs AOE correction.

So in the 2gx V3 gearbox; is the AOE corrected with Sorbo and removal of the second piston tooth (and perhaps more teeth) or is it just sorbo'd?

You have a picture of the correct geometry of the perfect out of the factory AOE correction to compare to the pictures I posted?  This arguing is not solution motiviated, maybe it could change and help your customers out.

Peace

I just want to fix my gun and maybe shoot you with it in a game.

#30 niko_gpsy

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 02:06 PM

OK, Agreed.

Here's a pic of how a proper angle of engagement supposed to look like.  Sorry I know this is not KWA but you get the idea. lol

Posted Image

#31 philsaudio

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 02:23 PM

View Postniko_gpsy, on 10 July 2012 - 02:06 PM, said:

OK, Agreed.

Here's a pic of how a proper angle of engagement supposed to look like.  Sorry I know this is not KWA but you get the idea. lol

Posted Image

this is how mine looked after my sorbo and before the piston stripped. The design of the KWA piston precludes actually seeing the gear mesh, even with the tappet removed.
Posted Image

Does KWA cut off piston teeth when correcting AOE? Got a picture of that?



PS I know how to fix AOE. Here is another V3 box of mine
Posted Image

Edited by philsaudio, 10 July 2012 - 02:28 PM.


#32 niko_gpsy

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 02:29 PM

I tell you what, I don't have any on me and all my KWA's are modded up the wazoo so it may just add to the confusion. I have a CQR coming in few days which I am going to gut for my next build so I can take a pic of that if you can hold for few days.

#33 Standard4130

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 02:50 PM

Does KWA just specify "15c" max or do they give you a mah rating along with the discharge rate?

#34 philsaudio

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 02:55 PM

View Postniko_gpsy, on 10 July 2012 - 02:29 PM, said:

I tell you what, I don't have any on me and all my KWA's are modded up the wazoo so it may just add to the confusion. I have a CQR coming in few days which I am going to gut for my next build so I can take a pic of that if you can hold for few days.
Holding my breath. thanks

#35 philsaudio

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 03:04 PM

View PostStandard4130, on 10 July 2012 - 02:50 PM, said:

Does KWA just specify "15c" max or do they give you a mah rating along with the discharge rate?

This is a great question because the total amperage that can be delivered is the product of the amp hour and C rating. Huge 10 amp hour battery (10,000 mah) even at 15C could put out a hundred fifty amps into a load that demands it.  That translates into a very stiff supply that will probably remain close to the open circuit voltage even on an AEG going full auto.

Most likely the mounting is the limiting factor on the capacity.

#36 Standard4130

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 03:17 PM

And vice versa......................... A tiny 800mah 15c would only push 12amps which is pretty low for an AEG battery.

#37 philsaudio

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 05:46 AM

View Postniko_gpsy, on 10 July 2012 - 02:29 PM, said:

I tell you what, I don't have any on me and all my KWA's are modded up the wazoo so it may just add to the confusion. I have a CQR coming in few days which I am going to gut for my next build so I can take a pic of that if you can hold for few days.


!
This is a video comparison of the CQR 2gx gearbox. They do not show the CH so it is impossible to see the sorbo if it were there but the piston at 1:27 clearly has all of the teeth. I find it difficult to believe then that KWA has has used traditional methods, those used in all of the TM compatible gearboxes to correct for AOE if they ship a piston with all of the teeth.

Are you still claiming that KWA is correcting the angle of engagement in the 2GX gun? What non faith-based evidence can the manufacturer and their reps here provide? I have not seen a picture that has one shred of evidence to this claim yet.  NOT ONE!

I think it is time for KWA to put up or shut up.

#38 niko_gpsy

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 04:04 AM

It is possible to have perfect AOE without removing the 2nd tooth on a piston and is evident in a KWA system.  And maybe I am not understanding you but are you saying that KWA cylinder heads do not come with sorbo pad that would adjust for AOE?
Also there are many other brand pistons that are manufactured without the 2nd tooth removed like CA, G&G, BRAVO, JG and etc that still works well when used in their GB's.  When I get my new KWA for a project this week I will take pics of the cylinder head and the AOE and hopefully it will clear up some confusion.

#39 philsaudio

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 07:21 AM

View Postniko_gpsy, on 16 July 2012 - 04:04 AM, said:

It is possible to have perfect AOE without removing the 2nd tooth on a piston and is evident in a KWA system.  And maybe I am not understanding you but are you saying that KWA cylinder heads do not come with sorbo pad that would adjust for AOE?
Also there are many other brand pistons that are manufactured without the 2nd tooth removed like CA, G&G, BRAVO, JG and etc that still works well when used in their GB's.  When I get my new KWA for a project this week I will take pics of the cylinder head and the AOE and hopefully it will clear up some confusion.

Just saying mine did not and I never saw a picture or any evidence KWA's do. I am waiting to see what you got. I really am and this video is all  I have seen so far.

#40 niko_gpsy

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 08:18 AM

I am confused.......even a 1st gen GB cylinder head would have some sort of sorbo padding.





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