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LM4 Upgrade question

upgrade lm4 compatibility rail barrel extenssion TBB KWA NPAS Magpull

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#1 Parashutte

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 06:41 PM

Hello, as I type this my LM4 is in the mail but I'm already looking for upgrade, please note I'm currently pretty new to AR, this will be my first. I own a WELL MB05, which I customized quite a bit.

Here is what I have so far ;

External :
  • Magpul PTS Angle Fore-grip
  • Magpul STR Carbine Stock Mil Spec
  • Magpul MOE Pistol Grip
Internal :
  • Maple Leaf KSC 2 Diamond Hop Up
Here are the piece I'm not sure will fit or have question about them :

NPAS : I heard npas being "ruined" with LM4 and I was wondering whats that all about? I can't find much information about it
Link : http://tigertactical...pas-p-2634.html

Spike's Tactical Billet Trigger Guard : Nice design, I like that its not curved I also like the Spider on bottom as well as being aluminium. My question being this line of text : ***Minor Modifications Necessary for WE M4 Series Rifles***
Source : http://www.blowbacka.../spksla0101.htm

Barrel extension / Flash Hider, It took me a while to find one I truly liked : Madbull Gemtech HALO QD, I've never installed or used a "Flash Hider/Barrel Extension" so I'm not quite sure if it will fit the LM4 or will I need to buy extra piece to make it fit?
Link : http://www.airsoftgi...37&mobile=false

TBB : I would like to pick up a 6.01mm, it has done wonder for my L96, but I wonder if I will have trouble of it jamming under full-auto? Anyone can share some light on this? Also what kind of TBB should I get for LM4?

RIS : I can't seem to put my finger on one, there are so many out there, madbul, DD, Troy, Knight's Arm, etc. Where should I start in trying to find a Rail for my LM4? I'm looking for something around 100-175$ and also trying for 9" - 12".

I appreciate the time you take to read the post and feel free to share any incite you might have or idea, even critic on my choice of upgrade, everything will help me!

Thanks
~ Parashutte

Edited by Parashutte, 19 August 2013 - 06:44 PM.


#2 General Pickle

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 08:32 PM

Hello Parashutte, I must confess that I am impressed by your post formatting! Perhaps I'll have to make my future posts more like this!

As far as barrels go I have heard that the RA Tech 6.01mm barrel is very good although I have not had a chance to buy it yet and test it for myself.

The Maple Leaf Diamond hop is a very worth while upgrade, however you need to make sure that you get the EVO II tension arm as well. Generally they come as a kit but in some cases I have seen the bucking sold by itself. This is the set of parts you will need: http://www.airsoftta...oods.php?id=760
I have ordered directly through AST with no issues, however the shipping time was a little longer than I'm used to. I have installed this kit in my LM4 PTS with some success however the results were less than stellar, most of which I attribute to not having upgraded my inner barrel yet.

This may be a matter of ergonomic choice and play style but I found that installing the Magpul ASAP sling adapter was one of the other crucial upgrades I made. I have heard that PTS was going to release a version of that product pre-modded for KWA LM4's but personally I don't mind modding the real steel product in exchange for more confidence in the product.

As for rails just keep in mind that it uses AEG threads, though I have heard that many real steel rail systems fit just fine. I am using a replica Noveske 10 inch rail from an AEG. I think that putting a rail on your rifle will make it feel much more solid and accurate, the hardest part about it is choosing which rail to settle with!

Hopefully this helps you a little in your process of upgrading and refining your LM4!
-Wrecker

#3 Parashutte

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 02:23 PM

 General Pickle, on 19 August 2013 - 08:32 PM, said:

Hello Parashutte, I must confess that I am impressed by your post formatting! Perhaps I'll have to make my future posts more like this!

Thank you for the compliment, when asking question or help I always polish the post a bit for many reason, one of them being easier to read for people who don't want to read a huge post can just focus on key word. It also makes it easier for people to understand what I'm really looking for, as well as just looking better hehe!

 General Pickle, on 19 August 2013 - 08:32 PM, said:

As far as barrels go I have heard that the RA Tech 6.01mm barrel is very good although I have not had a chance to buy it yet and test it for myself.

Thank, I'll look into that. As for the gun jamming is there a chance of it happening with such a smaller barrel?

 General Pickle, on 19 August 2013 - 08:32 PM, said:

The Maple Leaf Diamond hop is a very worth while upgrade, however you need to make sure that you get the EVO II tension arm as well. Generally they come as a kit but in some cases I have seen the bucking sold by itself. This is the set of parts you will need: http://www.airsoftta...oods.php?id=760
I have ordered directly through AST with no issues, however the shipping time was a little longer than I'm used to. I have installed this kit in my LM4 PTS with some success however the results were less than stellar, most of which I attribute to not having upgraded my inner barrel yet.

This is very valuable information! Thank you, I might have ordered the maple leaf alone without knowing, also winter is coming and I don't normally play during winter because not all of us are equipped for it so shipping time is not a problem! This is my winter project, I'll build my LM4 during winter and surprise everyone when we start again!

 General Pickle, on 19 August 2013 - 08:32 PM, said:

This may be a matter of ergonomic choice and play style but I found that installing the Magpul ASAP sling adapter was one of the other crucial upgrades I made. I have heard that PTS was going to release a version of that product pre-modded for KWA LM4's but personally I don't mind modding the real steel product in exchange for more confidence in the product.

Yes, I've seen the magpul ASAP, I was very interrested in it, I also like the magpul MS3 sling, thanks for mentionning it though!

 General Pickle, on 19 August 2013 - 08:32 PM, said:

As for rails just keep in mind that it uses AEG threads, though I have heard that many real steel rail systems fit just fine. I am using a replica Noveske 10 inch rail from an AEG. I think that putting a rail on your rifle will make it feel much more solid and accurate, the hardest part about it is choosing which rail to settle with!

Yes, the rail is the most important part for me right now, because I actually can't pick one, there are many rail systems that look pretty good.. how am I supposed to choose? Lol. Thanks for the information about the AEG threads!

Thank you very much for taking the time to read and reply in such detail! I appreciate the help very much!
~ Parashutte

Edited by Parashutte, 20 August 2013 - 02:23 PM.


#4 Parashutte

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 07:57 PM

I've decided on a rail, I'll get the Madbull Spike Bar Licensed 12"
http://madbull.com/c...1kq113h4je09sv2

So with a 12" rail, I'll still have around 2-3" of barrel left right? Will I be able to put a Madbull Gemtech HALO QD Barrel Extension?

Also what kind of Gas Block should I look at? One that end in the middle or at the end of the barrel? and what the difference in having the tube shorter/longer?

#5 Chuck S

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 03:16 AM

The LM4 works wonderfully right out of the box.  No "upgrades" are required.  Most of the items in the original post are fluff or cosmetic items which offer no performance or reliability increases.  :)  And, somehow, an airsoft M4 carbine that costs more than a real one bothers me.

I have a tight bore barrel and fancy bucking sitting here still in their shipping containers.  The gun works so well I ain't messing with it for now.

Extended barrel length will add muzzle velocity to the LM4 (and most gas guns) at the expense of making the gun somewhat unwieldly.  The reason the military went from the M16A2 to M4 is handling.  There are ways to boost muzzle velocity without replacing the inner barrel.

But it's nice to have choices!  And I under stand "just 'cuz" as a reason.

-- Chuck

#6 BioRage

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 05:17 AM

Hi,

Just placed in my RA-Tech barrel in after trying to get that bloody delta ring off (After 1 hr it got off -_-)

Anyways, here's some crappy photos I took of it last night. Will write up something later in the future..

Left = RA
Right = Stock


Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image



Still waiting for my Maple Leaf from Ebair..

Current WIP.. as of last night, haven't finished.

DD 9"
Posted Image



$700 in shipping+tax+parts lol. :cry:
Posted Image

#7 General Pickle

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 10:56 AM

 Parashutte, on 20 August 2013 - 07:57 PM, said:

I've decided on a rail, I'll get the Madbull Spike Bar Licensed 12"
http://madbull.com/c...1kq113h4je09sv2

So with a 12" rail, I'll still have around 2-3" of barrel left right? Will I be able to put a Madbull Gemtech HALO QD Barrel Extension?

Also what kind of Gas Block should I look at? One that end in the middle or at the end of the barrel? and what the difference in having the tube shorter/longer?

Nice choice! Yes, you should have about 2 inches of room left on the outer barrel so long as the rail fits how it's supposed to.

 Parashutte, on 20 August 2013 - 02:23 PM, said:

Thank, I'll look into that. As for the gun jamming is there a chance of it happening with such a smaller barrel?

Yes, I've seen the magpul ASAP, I was very interrested in it, I also like the magpul MS3 sling, thanks for mentionning it though!

The tightbore shouldn't cause that, though if you're having other issues it could amplify it. The main problem being that the inner barrel and outer barrel have a bit of movement sometimes, and this causes double feeds and all kinds of nasty problems. Check this out:
Basically this can be an issue by itself, but with a tighbore a double feed could be even worse. Just something to consider, I highly recommend doing the o-ring mod regardless.

I am currently using the MS3 along with the ASAP and I must say I'm impressed! Even without the ASAP the MS3 is one of the best slings I've used, since I was so tired of buying $15-20 slings that would break in a couple months.

Good luck with your project! The LM4 is a very rewarding project platform!
-Wrecker

#8 Parashutte

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 11:32 AM

 Chuck S, on 21 August 2013 - 03:16 AM, said:

The LM4 works wonderfully right out of the box.  No "upgrades" are required.  Most of the items in the original post are fluff or cosmetic items which offer no performance or reliability increases.  :)  And, somehow, an airsoft M4 carbine that costs more than a real one bothers me.

I have a tight bore barrel and fancy bucking sitting here still in their shipping containers.  The gun works so well I ain't messing with it for now.

Extended barrel length will add muzzle velocity to the LM4 (and most gas guns) at the expense of making the gun somewhat unwieldly.  The reason the military went from the M16A2 to M4 is handling.  There are ways to boost muzzle velocity without replacing the inner barrel.

But it's nice to have choices!  And I under stand "just 'cuz" as a reason.

-- Chuck

I understand your point, but the change I make are not for a simple "just cuz".

I really don't like the original stock, its not very stable to shoot with. ( I did test it, as I have a friend who has a stock LM4 )

Angle Fore-grip is to help with the recoil of the gun, of course there is not as much recoil as a real gun but in full auto there still is some which bothers me.

Maple leaf and TBB are to increase FPS and range stability, obviously those don't need explaining. I play outside and those long shot are really needed sometime.

RIS : Both for looks, utility and durability. You can't expect a plastic hand guard to last you every long and you can't attach anything to it, flashlight, laser, grip, etc. I'm not gonna waste money on flashlight and laser since they are not so useful in field combat but if I want to just boost the game looks I will.

 BioRage, on 21 August 2013 - 05:17 AM, said:

Hi,

Just placed in my RA-Tech barrel in after trying to get that bloody delta ring off (After 1 hr it got off -_-)

Anyways, here's some crappy photos I took of it last night. Will write up something later in the future..

Left = RA
Right = Stock

Still waiting for my Maple Leaf from Ebair..

Current WIP.. as of last night, haven't finished.

DD 9"
$700 in shipping+tax+parts lol. :cry:
Posted Image

That is awesome! Wow I'm really impress, thats most of the stuff I want, I'm glad I'm not the only one seeing a LM4 through a great upgrade hehe. PM me some picture once its completed! :D

 General Pickle, on 21 August 2013 - 10:56 AM, said:



Nice choice! Yes, you should have about 2 inches of room left on the outer barrel so long as the rail fits how it's supposed to.


Thanks! I've been afraid it would not leave enough.

 General Pickle, on 21 August 2013 - 10:56 AM, said:

The tightbore shouldn't cause that, though if you're having other issues it could amplify it. The main problem being that the inner barrel and outer barrel have a bit of movement sometimes, and this causes double feeds and all kinds of nasty problems. Check this out:
Basically this can be an issue by itself, but with a tighbore a double feed could be even worse. Just something to consider, I highly recommend doing the o-ring mod regardless.

I am currently using the MS3 along with the ASAP and I must say I'm impressed! Even without the ASAP the MS3 is one of the best slings I've used, since I was so tired of buying $15-20 slings that would break in a couple months.

Good luck with your project! The LM4 is a very rewarding project platform!
-Wrecker

Thank for all the info and for the good luck wishes! hehe, I can't wait to start assembling my LM4 :D I've looks at the video and a couple of other! Thanks a lot for all those great incite, you've helped me decide about a few things :)

And yeh I'll definitly get the MS3, I just keep hearing good review so far and its the kind of sling I wanted anyway!

Thanks everyone for your post!

~ Parashutte

#9 Parashutte

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 06:47 PM

Will the real version of the spike's tactical bar work on my LM4? How can I find out if it will fit?

http://www.spikestac...-12-p-1043.html

Edit : Because right now, I can't seem to find one anywhere, if I am to wait I might pick up the real version instead.

Edited by Parashutte, 21 August 2013 - 06:50 PM.


#10 netpoc

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 07:21 PM

I have installed the real Spike's Tactical BAR rail on my LM4. The threading is on the LM4's upper receiver is different from that of a real AR-15/M4. Your best bet is to go with the Madbull replica, unless you are willing to buy a die and rethread the receiver as I did.

#11 Parashutte

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 07:45 PM

 netpoc, on 21 August 2013 - 07:21 PM, said:

I have installed the real Spike's Tactical BAR rail on my LM4. The threading is on the LM4's upper receiver is different from that of a real AR-15/M4. Your best bet is to go with the Madbull replica, unless you are willing to buy a die and rethread the receiver as I did.

Thanks for the information, I'm trying to buy a Madbull one, but I can't find one.. lol I'll keep looking and keep that option as a last resort

#12 BioRage

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 08:54 AM

 Parashutte, on 21 August 2013 - 07:45 PM, said:

Thanks for the information, I'm trying to buy a Madbull one, but I can't find one.. lol I'll keep looking and keep that option as a last resort

Hmm, how about this one?

Mine's the 9", but you wanted a 12".

http://www.airsoftpa...roducts_id=2366


Yeah, I invested a ton into the LM4. Excited to try it out this Sunday, haha. Hopefully all is working.

#13 Parashutte

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 06:45 PM

 BioRage, on 23 August 2013 - 08:54 AM, said:

Hmm, how about this one?

Mine's the 9", but you wanted a 12".

http://www.airsoftpa...roducts_id=2366


Yeah, I invested a ton into the LM4. Excited to try it out this Sunday, haha. Hopefully all is working.

I'm looking for a madbull spike's tactical, I think you missed that part? Lol, I think DD is over used.. so I wanted to avert from DD if possible!

Also since I'm ordering from AST I though I would look at something else from it, as too not pay shipping for no reason and I was wondering if this will fit my LM4 : http://www.airsoftta...oods.php?id=457

Edit : or... http://www.airsoftta...oods.php?id=833? This look like there is a little dent in the barrel to stop everything, just like one of boobieM4H video.

Edit2 : That one

Edited by Parashutte, 23 August 2013 - 07:04 PM.


#14 BoobieM4H

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 07:15 PM

Get the lm4 tbb..not the we. It will work.

Sent from my SGH-T999L using Tapatalk 2



#15 Parashutte

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 07:50 PM

 BoobieM4H, on 23 August 2013 - 07:15 PM, said:

Get the lm4 tbb..not the we. It will work.

Sent from my SGH-T999L using Tapatalk 2

Thank, It said M4.. and not lm4.. so I wasn't sure!

#16 Madbull Mike

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 04:41 AM

Hi I just bought my first GBBR the pts version, and I am going to do some upgrades. So I wonder which hop up bucking is the best? Guarder, maple leaf or RA-tech? Or is there any more company's producing some one else?

#17 Parashutte

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 05:39 AM

 Madbull Mike, on 17 December 2013 - 04:41 AM, said:

Hi I just bought my first GBBR the pts version, and I am going to do some upgrades. So I wonder which hop up bucking is the best? Guarder, maple leaf or RA-tech? Or is there any more company's producing some one else?
I've got the maple Leaf and it is a beast of a upgrade part, along with a precision barrel, you can't go wrong with it. I personally haven't tried any other hop up (except from stock one)  but after researching, I found that Maple Leaf was the most recommended so I would also recommend it after trying it out.

#18 Madbull Mike

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 03:24 AM

Thanks :)
I'm going to bye the RA-tech tbb and npas also





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