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Major Design Flaws

LM4 design flaws imperfections broken

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#61 jakattack1987

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 06:26 PM

yeah nearing 5000 rounds havent oiled anything still running like a champ i can tell the internals should stand up to a lot of abuse much better made than anything else i have used same with the mp7 havent been able to fully test accuracy but hit a 2.5 foot circle 3 out of 3 at 50 yards hop up is all the way down though and bbs are overhopping after i cleaned the barrel and that is with .25 i guess cleaning the barrel got all the oil off the hop up cause it did raise my point of aim a few inches at little less than 30 feet should be fine with .30s might be a few issues here and there but this gun like the mp7 should last a long long time

#62 Outlaw1995

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 06:43 PM

This is a relief hearing some good reports... looking forward to getting my LM4 fixed! To be honest, my LM4 was running great until I neared my 5000th round. I was hitting soda cans at 100 feet with .25s. We shall see what happens when I get it back from KWA.

#63 Guest_Allizard_*

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 11:04 AM

This is what I notice so far that could be the cause for the problem.

The LM4 Magazine is design to hold 40 rounds.  However, on loading the mag with speed loader, it can load 41 rounds into the mag.  
If you do that, two things can happen.

1. If the bolt is close, the magazine have no clearance for the feed ram and magazine will not lock in place.  Forcing it to lock can damage the feed lip and feed ram.  

2. If the bolt is open, the magazine will lock but when you release the bolt, the weight of the steel bolt with a steel feed ram tip will damage the BB.  Thus the BB can be cracked or deformed when entering the hop-up chamber.  This will cause further jamming and the debris can damage other internal parts.  

So... be careful not to overload the mag.  After loading the mag, check if there is at least 3mm clearance.   If you can't push the BB in, it's too much.  Download one BB and you should be good to go.

I'll see if I can provide some pictures later today.

#64 buckshotbishop

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 11:13 AM

funny, the first time i saw this thread  i thought the problems might have to do with over loading the mag. Now is see i should have posted sooner.

#65 jakattack1987

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 12:44 PM

i actually ran into this problem luckily the bolt was closed and i couldnt get it to stay finally i figured out i had to many bbs took one out and it was perfect you can actually tell if there are to many bbs because if you push on the bbs they should go down if they dont take one out

#66 R_King91303

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 05:51 PM

View Postjakattack1987, on 30 May 2012 - 12:44 PM, said:

i actually ran into this problem luckily the bolt was closed and i couldnt get it to stay finally i figured out i had to many bbs took one out and it was perfect you can actually tell if there are to many bbs because if you push on the bbs they should go down if they dont take one out

Yea, this is definitely going to be a problem. Eyeballing it, there is no way to tell that your mag is overloaded:
Posted Image

The ONLY two ways you can tell if your at 41:

#1 Push push down on the BBs. If you are at 41, you will not be able to push down the BBs.

#2 If using a speed loader keep loading until it stops; you are now at 41.

Pages 8 & 9 of the user manual (loading the magazine) definitely does not cover this. It just gives a * warning but does not elaborate. This may need to be covered before the next batch is released? :-/


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#67 Guest_Allizard_*

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 05:56 PM

Yeah.. we are working on revising the operator's manual.  A warning label will be added on the mag and hop-up key as well.

#68 Outlaw1995

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 07:05 PM

There is ONE way to tell how many rounds you loaded up... using the provided tube loader, filling bbs to the top is about 30 rounds... maybe 29, can't remember. This is a good way to know how many rounds you loaded up. So load the tube up to the top, plunge them down, then drop another 9 or 10 and you should be at 40.

#69 jakattack1987

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 07:51 PM

i always check to see which side the bb is on after i finish loading i forget which side is good but thats how you can i ball it if its on the good side it cant be overloaded

#70 Titan

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 07:57 PM

I am a huge KWA fan, but really in the heat of battle I'm going to count BBs? As I have said before I have done a lot of shooting with my lm4 and I am sure I have overloaded every mag every time but I have had non of the problems that I have been reading about. So at this point to be safe I should probably fill my mags to the top as always and then just knock one out with my finger this would probably be the fastest and safest way to eliminate over filling.

#71 nosaj

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 02:13 PM

I know I have overloaded mine too, I wasn't aware I could overload it, good thing no problems as well.

#72 Titan

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 02:55 PM

Ok so I did a bunch of testing today on mag filling and at no point was I able to get more than 40 BBs in my mag. I am using a standard speed loader and a modified version of the tube loader that came with the gun. I basically removed the tube from the loader end and put a piece of clear 3/8 ID x 3/4 Polly tubing over the nipple were the tube was. This allows you to use a standard speed loader with no after market adapter to fill the mag. I also put the tube loader end on retractable key chain so I can mount it to my gear this allows for very fast mag loading. Not by design but by accident I think that this setup does not allow me to get 41 BBs into the mag and could be why I have never had any of the troubles that others have been seeing.

#73 niko_gpsy

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 03:08 PM

View PostTitan, on 31 May 2012 - 02:55 PM, said:

Ok so I did a bunch of testing today on mag filling and at no point was I able to get more than 40 BBs in my mag. I am using a standard speed loader and a modified version of the tube loader that came with the gun. I basically removed the tube from the loader end and put a piece of clear 3/8 ID x 3/4 Polly tubing over the nipple were the tube was. This allows you to use a standard speed loader with no after market adapter to fill the mag. I also put the tube loader end on retractable key chain so I can mount it to my gear this allows for very fast mag loading. Not by design but by accident I think that this setup does not allow me to get 41 BBs into the mag and could be why I have never had any of the troubles that others have been seeing.
That is good to know Titan.  Thanks for your input.

#74 R_King91303

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 04:32 PM

I am not an engineer and I haven't taken the mag apart yet so I don't if the follower bottoms out. Wouldn't making the tail on follower 3 mm longer work? It would provide the necessary slack the bolt requires while also limiting mag capacity to 40 BBs...?  Additionally, since replacing the follower is fairly simple it would allow the consumers who already have a mag a way to remedy the problem (contact KWA to order the replacement part)?


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#75 devil69

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 06:25 PM

Im going to be really course with this, I was warned a while back ago by my airsoft wholesaler to avoid KWA products. He said he would never in his life own one again. He used to absolutely love them, but he would sell them to his customers and they would break as soon as they got them home. Now, this has been years ago, that being said; things change. I have personally seen numerous videos about this gun, practically fell in love with it. I currently own the KA Colt M4 GBBR Daniel Defense from ASGI, hands down my favorite feeling gun I own, which is a serious allocation considering I have a fully custom $1800 AEG. I've read every single post on this thread and I must say im seriously impressed with how everyone is working together to at least try and assist eachother; including the KWA staff, that is very impressive to me. After reading your posts, my LM4 is going to be ordered tomorrow, along with 2 extra magazines and 3 magazines for my KA. I was worried and hesitant on purchasing this gun after reading the posts, but once I seen that the KWA staff got involved to help with the problem and the friendly helpful enviroment that is on this forum. My confidence grew again. I am terribly sorry for those of your who have purchased this gun and have had problems with it. But one thing I do wish to point out that I have noticed, is everyone of your thats had problems, have shot it on full auto. Maybe its just a theory of mine, but maybe if you were to keep it down to semi only the problems wouldnt arise? Well maintained, well taken care of, green gas, silicone, and semi auto only maybe the problems wouldnt arise? Ill test this theory when my LM4 is in my hands in the weeks to come. Thanks for the useful information!

Ghost Security Force,
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#76 Titan

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 07:30 PM

Nice to have you on board with the Lm4. you sound a lot like myself. I am a very picky consumer and i only buy what i feel is the best to use for the sport that i love. When i am on the field i dont want to have to worry about my gear i just want to focus on the game and trying to keep up with 20 year old guys who run like jack rabbits. lol. you are correct about the full auto. I bought this gun with a purpose in mind. It is for a couple large semi only events that i go to. Besides from a few 3 round bursts my Lm4 seldom leaves semi. If your looking for mag dumping action then pull out the AEG and give the LM4 the day off. This thing is a blast to shoot :clap:

#77 R_King91303

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 07:50 PM

Welcome to the boards Devil. Agreed, the KWA boards have been one of the more civil boards I have seen. With that said I think most of us (if not all) fully brace the community concept to help each other while also keeping a constructive line of communications with KWA so they can continue to roll out high quality products.

With that said, I have been more than pleased with the longevity of my KWA products and understood when purchasing the LM4 that this is a very new product line, and that there might be some growing pains.  :)


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#78 devil69

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 09:04 PM

I certainly am impressed with the friendliness of this forum. As I stated, I'm still very confident in the LM4. I have a degree in homeland security plan to use both my KA and the LM4 as my professional training rifle. In my career field. I believe strongly that if any problems do arise with my LM4 I will have a strong and friendly community to help with repairs and an excellent customer service to assist as well. Though, I do plan to void the warranty by installing a Daniel Defense rail and magpul accessories. I'm pleased to know that the KWA understand that and are still willing to work with their customers. I do have a question, does this gun support basic AEG rails? Real steel rails are expensive and if I can buy the DD 9" of ASGI and they work I'd go with that.

#79 R_King91303

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 09:29 PM

I have heard from two different sources (one being ASGI techs) that the Madbull Daniel Defense rails should work. If you were looking at the Omega line, the X variants would not be compatible.

Edit: Hmm... with the 9" rail were you also looking to remove the front triangle setup as well?

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Edited by R_King91303, 31 May 2012 - 09:32 PM.


#80 devil69

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 10:33 PM

Yes, sir I was planning on buying magpul flip up sights or offset angled sights like the ones on my custom AEG. Along with a holo w/ magnification QD or an aimpoint red/green dot and probably a magpul PTS stock.

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