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#81 Pyro_Buster

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 05:31 PM

I want to thank you for all your help, Vanevery. I had the opportunity to somewhat range test my SR10 today. Even without the full cylinder and other mods, and despite increasing winds through the valley (about 12 mph), I was able to easily hit a man sized target at approximately 270 feet.

Edited by Pyro_Buster, 15 June 2014 - 04:08 PM.


#82 philippe07024

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Posted 15 June 2014 - 02:32 PM

View Postvanevery, on 14 June 2014 - 06:51 AM, said:

Your gun should be eating up 200' for breakfast.

Given your description, I believe it does not have anything to do with the Gearbox or Air Nozzle.
The fps may seem low, but for .32's that is actually about right.
10 different Chronographs can produce 10 different readings as well, so keep that in mind.
It also matters at what setting the Hop-up Unit was set when chronoing the gun.
I believe you need to focus your attention on the Hop-un Unit and Bucking.

Install:
If the Bucking was not installed correctly, the gun will not shoot correctly.
The Lonex 70 Degree Bucking gives a lot of people issues regarding the install process specifically in their KWA Hop-up Units.
This due to the Bucking's thickness and the tight tolerance of the Hop-up Unit.

...

Mr. V.
As usual thank you very much for such a detailed response.

I did the uninstall - reinstall of the Lonex 70 bucking according to your procedure. I inspected the bucking which looked fine. It was easier this time, the back and forth movement of the inner barrel helps a lot.

The results at the range are very similar to my first try, depending on the hop-up setup:
1. the BBs curve down before reaching 200 feet: 0 hit.
2. the BBs curve up then down to reach 200 feet: 50% hit, but this setup forces me to aim fairly low to hit at 120 feet .
3. the BBs curve up (typical of too much hop-up): 0 hit.

As a reminder, my current setup for my KWA SR10 is:
1. Quality heavy ammo: Elite Force MILSIM Max Bio 0.32g
2. Hop-up Unit: standard KWA; Bucking:   Lonex 70 Degree.
3. 455mm Inner Barrel: MadBull 455mm/6.03tbb.
4. Full / Type-O Cylinder: VFC cylinder
5. Spring: Stock M120

PS: I mentioned earlier 295fps, with hop-up setup to the minimum I am at 315fps.

Edited by philippe07024, 15 June 2014 - 02:40 PM.


#83 philippe07024

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Posted 15 June 2014 - 02:37 PM

View PostPyro_Buster, on 14 June 2014 - 05:31 PM, said:

I want to thank you for all your help, Vanevery. I had the opportunity to somewhat range test my SR10 today. Even without the full cylinder and other mods, and despite increasing winds through the valley, I was able to easily hit a man sized target at approximately 270 feet.
Hello Pyro,
Quite impressive indeed.
Do you mind going over your current setup in details?
Philippe

#84 Pyro_Buster

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Posted 15 June 2014 - 04:13 PM

View Postphilippe07024, on 15 June 2014 - 02:37 PM, said:


Hello Pyro,
Quite impressive indeed.
Do you mind going over your current setup in details?
Philippe

No problem, Philippe. I have a KWA SR10, stock hop up unit with a Maple Leaf 70 bucking and RTX flat hop nub. Stock 0.5 cylinder, M120 long spring, and Madbull 6.03mm 455mm. Ammo is Elite Force .32g MILSIM Max. It took a little bit of fiddling with the hop up, seeing as how I started with .30g, but after I got it set it was great. I didn't mention before, but the winds were about 12 mph or so, so I was impressed with my results.

#85 vanevery

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Posted 15 June 2014 - 05:44 PM

View Postphilippe07024, on 15 June 2014 - 02:32 PM, said:

Mr. V.
As usual thank you very much for such a detailed response.

I did the uninstall - reinstall of the Lonex 70 bucking according to your procedure. I inspected the bucking which looked fine. It was easier this time, the back and forth movement of the inner barrel helps a lot.

The results at the range are very similar to my first try, depending on the hop-up setup:
1. the BBs curve down before reaching 200 feet: 0 hit.
2. the BBs curve up then down to reach 200 feet: 50% hit, but this setup forces me to aim fairly low to hit at 120 feet .
3. the BBs curve up (typical of too much hop-up): 0 hit.

As a reminder, my current setup for my KWA SR10 is:
1. Quality heavy ammo: Elite Force MILSIM Max Bio 0.32g
2. Hop-up Unit: standard KWA; Bucking:   Lonex 70 Degree.
3. 455mm Inner Barrel: MadBull 455mm/6.03tbb.
4. Full / Type-O Cylinder: VFC cylinder
5. Spring: Stock M120

PS: I mentioned earlier 295fps, with hop-up setup to the minimum I am at 315fps.

Troubleshoot:
- My guess is you are using the C-clip?
Get rid of it.
Use added Teflon Tape or muliple Brass rings, or both.

- Possibly installing without taking the Hop-up apart?
This can cause the Nub to not seat correctly.

- Ammo:
You could try a different brand and weight of ammo.
All brands make a bad batch of ammo from time to time.
I don't think that is it, but it could be.

- Shine a bright flash light on the Bucking Mound.
I once had a Lonex 70 Degree Bucking Mound tear for no explicable reason.

- Make sure the Bucking Mound is raising and lowering properly and that it is centered in the Barrel window.

- Try a Lonex 50 Degree Bucking and see what happens.

#86 Sgt Roc

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 06:29 AM

I just received my SR10 yesterday so I am ordering all the parts Vanevery has already tested and had good results with.

I also want to say Thank you to Mr. V for all your hard work collecting data and field testing.

#87 JesseHammil

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 12:38 PM

View Postvanevery, on 15 June 2014 - 05:44 PM, said:


- My guess is you are using the C-clip?
Get rid of it.
Use added Teflon Tape or muliple Brass rings, or both.


How do you get the barrel correctly in the hop up with it aligned with out the c-clip?

#88 Sgt Roc

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 03:14 AM

Has anyone tried this new miracle barrel? While ordering my parts for my DMR yesterday I came across it on airsoft gi, also found some YouTube videos about it. It looks promising. I ordered one to test it out. I will report back after I get it and test it. The big con to it is the price.

Edited by gcw360, 03 July 2014 - 05:32 AM.


#89 BLATEY

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 04:55 AM

Yeah, I've seen it but I don't like the price and I'd rather just get a prommy or madbull barrel with r hop.

Edited by BLATEY, 03 July 2014 - 04:56 AM.


#90 gcw360

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 05:35 AM

View PostSgt Roc, on 03 July 2014 - 03:14 AM, said:

Has anyone tried this new miracle barrel? While ordering my parts for my DMR yesterday I came across it on airsoft gi, also found some YouTube videos about it. It looks promising. I ordered one to test it out. I will report back after I get it and test it. The big con to it is the price.
I fired an RM4 with one installed along with a maple leaf bucking and tensioner.  The system performed well but it was one mag with nothing as a comparison and no way to tell what was driving the performance.  I would like to hear about your results though.

#91 BLATEY

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 07:56 AM

Hey van, im wondering if you've ever used a wide bore barrel. Im thinking of trying it but am not sure of the results since it's a fairly new item in the airsoft industry.

1. is it better than r hop?
2. can you r hop a wide bore barrel for better results?(more hop)
3. is it better than a tbb?

-BLATEY

#92 BLATEY

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 05:04 AM

What would be better.
1. Kwa .3g bbs w/ Prometheus eg 6.03.
2. Kwa .3g bbs w/ Prometheus wide bore 6.20.
3. Kwa .3g bbs w/ Prometheus 6.01.

Which barrel would have the best hop affect while still flying straight. My gun shoots around 430 with .2g bbs.

#93 HazmatVisuals

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 10:54 PM

Hey everyone. V, you are an amazing person helping everyone out! Just wonderful! I'm totally new to upgrades so excuse me haha.
I have a cqr mod 1 that I would like to get up to 400 fps or near that. I'm planning on getting an angel customs 0.5 cylinder, 455mm 6.03 tbb, and a g&g green 70 degree bucking. What type of performance/ range should I be expecting after these upgrades?  Thanks everyone, I appreciate any responses!

#94 cellistle

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 10:29 AM

I've been doing some tests in my own gun as far as various hop up combinations.

KWA sr10 with merf 3.2 mosfet. My gun is set to safe/3 round burst/auto using a 9.6 1600 mah battery. Bbs used are G&G .3s and valken .3s. They both have performed equally among all my guns.
Over the last few months I've been playing around with various hop up and flat hop bucking/nub combinations.

Drop in bucking
- 2gx
- lonex 70

Flat hop:
- kwa 2gx
- lonex 70
- madbull red

Rhop: (only used Zkit for patch)
- lonex 70
- kwa 2gx

For nubs I have used
- standard nub
- standard nub with wire and other various inserts to strengthen the nub
- raptors RTX hop up nub
- madbull shark/conclave nub
- homemade nubs with pink erasers and with hard pencil erasers
- prommy hopup tensioner bridge
- prommy buffer rubber

My best results were with rhop using KWA bucking and prommy buffer rubber, I personally liked the kwa bucking because of how easy it was to install and adjust anything. Unlike the lonex 70 which would take quite abit more work to get seated into the hopup correctly. I'm able to hit a man sized target on 3 round burst at 250 feet. One of the three bbs will hit and often 2 may hit. The only thing I have noticed is that while the bbs have an incredible range, they do have quite a spread, up to a 4' square on the worst of days but still effective enough to be able to engage targets at that distance.
A very close and similar performing set up was using the raptors nub. It did not need quite as much sanding as the prommy nub did, making this one an easier install.
Previous to that my 3rd best performer was using a lonex 70 degree bucking and flat hop using a raptors nub.

I could never seem to get a strait enough cut for the erasers in which case they were always less consistent and had the weakest ranges.

I also have a KWA CQR mod 2 that i'm beginning to test on. I've tried flat hop 2gx with prommy tensioner bridge and a strait lonex 70 degree. I'm going to give it a r hop and see how it performs. I havn't been quite pleased with the success of the mod 2. The bb's never seem to get quite enough hop. Have used .25s, .28s, .3s. Shots die out after 100 feet.

My next job i'll be working on is trying to make my sr10 more consistent. I'll be reprogramming my mosfet into semi/auto and seeing if that causes an effect. Otherwise I'll be tie the bucking with floss and wrap in teflon tape.

#95 CasaNOVA_Fly

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Posted 12 January 2015 - 06:52 PM

Helllo, Ive been reading this for the past few days. Im looking to upgrade the accuracy of my SR7. Im thinking about a Madbull 455mm 6.03 tbb (a barrel extension too), Maple Leaf 75 degree bucking, Maple Leaf RTX flat nub, Gaurder Super Lucid Chromium Plating Cylinder , Systema M100. I want to hit at least 175-200' and have just under 400 FPS.

I know you recommend the Lonex 50 degree or 70 degree, but you say its very tight, and Im not too patient of a person, and Ive heard the Maple Leaf fits better, and still performs admirably.

Edited by CasaNOVA_Fly, 12 January 2015 - 06:54 PM.


#96 vanevery

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Posted 13 January 2015 - 04:01 PM

Inner Barrel:
I have been an advocate of a 455mm Inner Barrel for a long time, more specifically Madbull 455mm/6.03tbb.
To this day, I have yet to find a barrel that out performs it, at any cost.
Keep in mind that I almost always use some form of vibration control and/or barrel lock-down method.
Even without such measures, it is a great performing barrel regardless.
Make sure to read further down regarding Mock Outer Barrel Extension and other Inner Barrel options for your airsoft gun.

Bucking:
I have no experience at all with Maple Leaf Buckings.
I believe many here on this forum do have experience with it and like it very much.
I will eventually try the Maple Leaf Bucking, but am really liking the ER-hop, or some type of patch-hop, so that has the majority of my attention at the moment.
I am not sure of the ease of install for the Maple Leaf Bucking.
I believe there are different degrees of rubber regarding it, and some can be quite difficult to install.
I believe there is a Moderator here on this forum who installed one and ended up breaking the Hop-up Unit attempting to remove it. This if my memory serves me correctly.

For Drop-in Buckings, my top three are:
1. Lonex 70 Degree
2. G&G Green
3. Lonex 50 Degree.

I would advise going with the Lonex 50 Degree if you go the Drop-in Bucking route.
It really is a great Bucking, installs much easier than the other two mentioned in a KWA Hop-up Unit, provides great air seal, and accommodates most weights of bb's very well.
I do suggest, and I say this all the time to drive the point home, that no matter what Bucking or Hop-up Unit mod you install, always do so with the Hop-up Unit dis-assembled.
There is a great guide pinned in the Downgrades and Modification section for this.

Cylinder:
Yes, the Guarder Cylinder is quite good.
It is expensive compared to other Type-O/Full Cylinders, so keep that in mind.
Also make sure you order the right one, as it is not marked as Full Cylinder nor Type-0 in its description.

- Main Spring:
Systema m100 is fine.
I presume you are looking for a lower fps reading and is why you are choosing this spring.
Keep in mind that a Full Cylinder and the longer Inner Barrel will lower your FPS, so you may not need such a low Main Spring rating to reach the lower FPS.
This is another example where FPS is a false indicator of performance.
Though the FPS will be lower, the gun performance will shoot farther.
If possible, I may suggest a stronger Main Spring just for the sake of doing so.
M110 may be better in my opinion.
At or around 350fps is plenty for long range shots.
If you are looking for 400fps, then a brand new KWA m120 would be a great choice for your gun.

Mock Outer Barrel Extension:
The Outer Barrel is around 300mm on an SR7.
So, to add a Mock Barrel Extension to cover such an amount of extended barrel length may not be the best idea. You would definitely need some barrel stabilizers and such.
I know SuperFrog, as well as many others, really like the KWA SR10 425mm Inner Barrel.
I have used it and does perform great.
So, consider this an option for your gun specifically.
Also consider the MadBull 407mm/6.03tbb as another great option for your gun.

Range and Ammo:
175'-200' will be easy distances to hit with the above set-up suggestions.
You can expect to shoot much farther than that, truthfully.
Ammo:
For hitting targets past 150' consider using at least .30 weight bb's.
Quality heavy ammo shoots farther and more accurate than light ammo.
Another example of where the lower FPS of the heavy ammo will out perform the higher FPS of lighter ammo.

Edited by vanevery, 13 January 2015 - 07:44 PM.


#97 CasaNOVA_Fly

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Posted 13 January 2015 - 06:15 PM

View Postvanevery, on 13 January 2015 - 04:01 PM, said:

Inner Barrel:
I have been an advocate of a 455mm Inner Barrel for a long time, more specifically Madbull 455mm/6.03tbb.
To this day, I have yet to find a barrel that out performs it, at any cost.
Keep in mind that I almost always use some form of vibration control and/or barrel lock-down method.
Even without such measures, it is a great performing barrel regardless.
Make sure to read further down regarding Mock Outer Barrel Extension and other Inner Barrel options for your airsoft gun.

Bucking:
I have no experience at all with Maple Leaf Buckings.
I believe many here on this forum do have experience with it and like it very much.
I will eventually try the Maple Leaf Bucking, but am really liking the ER-hop, or some type of patch-hop, so that has the majority of my attention at the moment.
I am not sure of the ease of install for the Maple Leaf Bucking.
I believe there are different degrees of rubber regarding it, and some can be quite difficult to install.
I believe there is a Moderator here on this forum who installed one and ended up breaking the Hop-up Unit attempting to remove it. This if my memory serves me correctly.

For Drop-in Buckings, my top three are:
1. Lonex 70 Degree
2. G&G Green
3, Lonex 50 Degree.

I would advise going with the Lonex 50 Degree if you go the Drop-in Bucking route.
It really is a great Bucking, installs much easier than the other two mentioned in a KWA Hop-up Unit, provides great air seal, and accommodates most weights of bb's very well.
I do suggest, and I say this all the time to drive the point home, that no matter what Bucking or Hop-up Unit mod you install, always do so with the Hop-up Unit dis-assembled.
There is a great guide pinned in the Downgrades and Modification section for this.

Cylinder:
Yes, the Guarder Cylinder is quite good.
It is expensive compared to other Type-O/Full Cylinders, so keep that in mind.
Also make sure you order the right one, as it is not marked as Full Cylinder nor Type-0 in its description.

- Main Spring:
Systema m100 is fine.
I presume you are looking for a lower fps reading and is why you are choosing this spring.
Keep in mind that a Full Cylinder and the longer Inner Barrel will lower your FPS, so you may not need such a low Main Spring rating to reach the lower FPS.
This is another example where FPS is a false indicator of performance.
Though the FPS will be lower, the gun performance will shoot farther.
If possible, I may suggest a stronger Main Spring just for the sake of doing so.
M110 may be better in my opinion.
At or around 350fps is plenty for long range shots.
If you are looking for 400fps, then a brand new KWA m120 would be a great choice for your gun.

Mock Outer Barrel Extension:
The Outer Barrel is around 300mm on an SR7.
So, to add a Mock Barrel Extension to cover such an amount of extended barrel length may not be the best idea. You would definitely need some barrel stabilizers and such.
I know SuperFrog, as well as many others, really like the KWA SR10 425mm Inner Barrel.
I have used it and does perform great
So, consider this an option for your gun specifically.
Also consider the MadBull 407mm/6.03tbb as another great option for your gun.

Range and Ammo:
175'-200' will be easy distances to hit with the above set-up suggestions.
You can expect to shoot much farther than that, truthfully.

Ammo:
For hitting targets past 150' consider using at least .30 weight bb's.
Quality heavy ammo shoots farther and more accurate than light ammo.
Another example of where the lower FPS of the heavy ammo will out perform the higher FPS of lighter ammo.
Thanks you! Would a Systema M110 work better? Because I'm seeing a lot of people with M120s and they're shooting ~420, and my field is 400 no exceptions. I'll get the rest. I do understand fps doesn't mean accuracy, as I've seen 285fps TMs out shoot 500fps snipers XD. Once I install the parts, I hope to inform you on how it fires : ) I'll Also get some high quality .25s or maybe Maruzen BIO .29s, or a .28, probably all of them, then I'll see which fires best. And I'll also getting the Madbull HALO barrel extension to cover the inner barrel.

Edited by CasaNOVA_Fly, 13 January 2015 - 06:20 PM.


#98 Hunterk97

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Posted 13 January 2015 - 07:20 PM

View PostCasaNOVA_Fly, on 13 January 2015 - 06:15 PM, said:

Thanks you! Would a Systema M110 work better? Because I'm seeing a lot of people with M120s and they're shooting ~420, and my field is 400 no exceptions. I'll get the rest. I do understand fps doesn't mean accuracy, as I've seen 285fps TMs out shoot 500fps snipers XD. Once I install the parts, I hope to inform you on how it fires : ) I'll Also get some high quality .25s or maybe Maruzen BIO .29s, or a .28, probably all of them, then I'll see which fires best. And I'll also getting the Madbull HALO barrel extension to cover the inner barrel.
Most people hit 420 fps with an M120 spring because it is a standard spring. KWA springs on the other hand are shorter than normal springs so it drops the fps to keep it at 400 or a little lower I believe.

#99 CasaNOVA_Fly

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Posted 14 January 2015 - 01:48 PM

View PostHunterk97, on 13 January 2015 - 07:20 PM, said:

Most people hit 420 fps with an M120 spring because it is a standard spring. KWA springs on the other hand are shorter than normal springs so it drops the fps to keep it at 400 or a little lower I believe.
[jaw drop] LOL I'm still going to get the Systema, since I want to be sure. Plus, like stated before, accuracy doesn't equal range <-- XD lol i meant POWER doesnt equal range!

Edited by CasaNOVA_Fly, 15 January 2015 - 04:23 PM.


#100 vanevery

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Posted 15 January 2015 - 04:28 PM

View PostJesseHammil, on 02 July 2014 - 12:38 PM, said:

How do you get the barrel correctly in the hop up with it aligned with out the c-clip?

I don't use C-clips.
I use a Mega Teflon Tape Mod.
This is a super heavy application of Teflon Tape wrapped around the Bucking starting just below the Barrel window.
Then, wrapped all the way down the Bucking and spilling over onto the Inner Barrel until it reaches the end of the Hop-up Unit location.
It is so thick and tight, it holds the Inner Barrel in place much better than C-clips, as well as completes air-seal in the Bucking.
There are continuing benefits such as vibration control and assistance with static electricity, which from what I have seen, can have benefits to shooting performance.
My experiments with static electricity and airsoft gun shooting performance is ongoing, but there is something there and something to it.

View PostSgt Roc, on 03 July 2014 - 03:14 AM, said:

Has anyone tried this new miracle barrel? While ordering my parts for my DMR yesterday I came across it on airsoft gi, also found some YouTube videos about it. It looks promising. I ordered one to test it out. I will report back after I get it and test it. The big con to it is the price.
Have not tried the Miracle Inner Barrel, but will at some point.
When it first debuted, it received horrible reviews.
As time went on, more and more airsofters had positive reports about the barrel.
There is definitely times when a "stepped" approach is beneficial.
There are a couple Hop-up Mods I do where in fact I incorporate a stepped approach.
This may prove to be my go to  baseline Hop-up approach, when using the Hop-up Unit function in its standard location.

View PostBLATEY, on 15 July 2014 - 07:56 AM, said:

Hey van, im wondering if you've ever used a wide bore barrel. Im thinking of trying it but am not sure of the results since it's a fairly new item in the airsoft industry.
1. is it better than r hop?
2. can you r hop a wide bore barrel for better results?(more hop)
3. is it better than a tbb?
- BLATEY
I have no experience with Wide Bore Barrels for long range testing or long range game play.
It is on the test agenda, but have yet to do so.
The plan has been to reach the performance limits of Tight Bore Barrels and then test Wide Bore Barrels for comparison.
As of this moment, I have not reached the limits of distance and accuracy with TBB's.

There has been a lot of bad information across the airsoft forum universe regarding both Wide Bore Barrels and Tight Bore Barrels.
Upon the arrival of WBB's, all of a sudden, and without any real world testing, WBB's were advised as being superior in performance for long range compared to TBB's.
Not only that, TBB's all of a sudden were now advised as being poor performers for long range.
All the above is simply poor information.
All of which was untested and was more theory, and poorly put together mathematical equations, not real world testing.
Slowly, more and more airsofters are stating that WBB's are not good performers for long range as they have begun testing, especially in AEG's specifically.

Edited by vanevery, 15 January 2015 - 05:17 PM.





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