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LiPo Battery Warning!!!


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#81 Bro KV

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Posted 24 February 2010 - 05:36 PM

View PostAbout 59 Goats, on 15 February 2010 - 12:41 PM, said:

I just ordered the RA-tech 20A Li-Mn battery off ASGI, i'll let you know how it does it the SR-10

You must of ordered the last one they had.  :(

#82 !NFAMOUS

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 05:43 PM

will a 7.4v li-poly battery have less of an effect on my 2GX gearbox than a 11.1v? is there a huge difference in the ROF between those two batteries because of the voltages?

#83 Ryno

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 05:47 PM

View Post!NFAMOUS, on 03 April 2010 - 05:43 PM, said:

will a 7.4v li-poly battery have less of an effect on my 2GX gearbox than a 11.1v? is there a huge difference in the ROF between those two batteries because of the voltages?

Yes the 11.1 will have more wear but that's the whole point of a kwa. it can take a 11.1 lipo with ease.

#84 Vamp2269

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 06:20 PM

hey does the amp rating have anything to do with wearing out the gearbox more quickly? lets say a 11.1v 2200mah 50A would the amp rating be a factor with this baterry it is within the voltage rating but far exceedint the recomended amp rating posted.

#85 gcw360

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 06:38 PM

View PostVamp2269, on 03 April 2010 - 06:20 PM, said:

hey does the amp rating have anything to do with wearing out the gearbox more quickly? lets say a 11.1v 2200mah 50A would the amp rating be a factor with this baterry it is within the voltage rating but far exceedint the recomended amp rating posted.
No. Voltage is the only thing that has an effect on the ROF and susiquantly the wear of internal parts. mAh only effects how many shots you will get and continuous and peak amperage only need to be high enough for the current draw of the motor. With a stock motor and spring the current draw is a little less than 15 amps. :gun:

#86 Guest_NumenoreanBlood_*

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 08:12 PM

View Postgcw360, on 03 April 2010 - 06:38 PM, said:

No. Voltage is the only thing that has an effect on the ROF and susiquantly the wear of internal parts. mAh only effects how many shots you will get and continuous and peak amperage only need to be high enough for the current draw of the motor. With a stock motor and spring the current draw is a little less than 15 amps. :gun:
I don't know why people have the misconception about mAh rating.  I have been arguing this with several of my friends, and they cannot wrap their heads around the fact that the mAh and Amp rating doesn't effect internal wear, so long as the Amp rating is higher than the draw (then batteries heat up or light on fire).  

I went through and explained all of this stuff in this ( http://www.kwausa.co...h=1 ) thread if anyone wants help having this clarified.

#87 Jonas888

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Posted 04 April 2010 - 01:53 AM

If i were a jerk I'd say that mAh does increase wear!!!11
One guy use lipo with 1100mAh, another guy with 2500mAh. They both "consume" they're battery's the same day and obviously the guy with 2500mAh have more wear as he was shooting longer(timewise).
But I'd only say that if I were a jerk, so I ain't going to write it... or did I?Posted Image


;)

#88 Vamp2269

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Posted 04 April 2010 - 09:49 AM

I was just wondering cause on the first page the radix said they recomend 11.1V 1600mah 18A and on other parts denounces using higher mah and A ratings so it would seem that there is a coreelation with the A rating at least but he could be wrong. Im just going off with what he said. and im not taking about mah which is the batterys capacity im talking about Amps. the current that the battery can produce. but anyway i dont care i just wanted to ask the question and besides i have a gas gun and a spring sniper rifle, so the reason why I am participating in this thread is a question I don't have an answer for.

#89 Guest_allizard_*

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Posted 04 April 2010 - 03:16 PM

Most people only recognized higher voltage gives higher ROF.  However, it's a lot more complicated and the formula involves Mah and Discharge rate and calculate the total Amperage.    So you have to look at the all 3 valuables together to determine how it gives higher ROF.

#90 Vamp2269

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Posted 04 April 2010 - 05:26 PM

View Postallizard, on 04 April 2010 - 03:16 PM, said:

Most people only recognized higher voltage gives higher ROF.  However, it's a lot more complicated and the formula involves Mah and Discharge rate and calculate the total Amperage.    So you have to look at the all 3 valuables together to determine how it gives higher ROF.
so in theory higher MAh and A ratings in a lipo increase rate of fire snd thus increasing wear on the internals, correct?

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Posted 04 April 2010 - 05:31 PM

View Postallizard, on 04 April 2010 - 03:16 PM, said:

Most people only recognized higher voltage gives higher ROF.  However, it's a lot more complicated and the formula involves Mah and Discharge rate and calculate the total Amperage.    So you have to look at the all 3 valuables together to determine how it gives higher ROF.

I've talked with a mechanical engineer, a chemical engineer, a avid model airplane hobbyist, and have spent hours looking this up on college websites.  EVERYTHING and EVERYONE that I have talked to/read have said the same thing, that the voltage is all that will matter.  The two engineers are mentor's on my robotics team (FRC Team 1718, the Fighting Pi, we've earned our way into the international championship in Atlanta a week and a half from now!!!), and believe me when I say that they know their stuff.

Edited by NumenoreanBlood, 04 April 2010 - 05:32 PM.


#92 Vamp2269

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Posted 04 April 2010 - 06:05 PM

I dont know much about this but if a 7.4v lipo bater gets higher bps than a 8.4v or even some 9.6v wouldnt their have to be at least some truth to the correlation with mah an A like allizard said. the extra rate of fire has to be accounted for somehow. it cant be that lipos are just magic like that.

#93 Guest_NumenoreanBlood_*

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Posted 04 April 2010 - 06:56 PM

View PostVamp2269, on 04 April 2010 - 06:05 PM, said:

I dont know much about this but if a 7.4v lipo bater gets higher bps than a 8.4v or even some 9.6v wouldnt their have to be at least some truth to the correlation with mah an A like allizard said. the extra rate of fire has to be accounted for somehow. it cant be that lipos are just magic like that.

Where have you ever seen a gun get HIGHER rof by using a LOWER voltage battery????

#94 Vamp2269

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Posted 04 April 2010 - 10:53 PM

View PostNumenoreanBlood, on 04 April 2010 - 06:56 PM, said:

Where have you ever seen a gun get HIGHER rof by using a LOWER voltage battery????
7.4lipos do im afraid heard it somewhere on the forums i havent tested it myself 'cause i dont own an aeg but i guess its common knowlege.

#95 Vamp2269

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Posted 04 April 2010 - 10:57 PM

View PostRadix, on 06 August 2008 - 07:33 AM, said:

The performance of the 7.4V Lipo is in between 8.4V & 9.6V NiMh batteries.  You'll get a higher ROF with 9.6V NiMh.

Lithium Polymer (LiPo) Battery's voltage is determined by total cell counts.  Each cell is 3.7V, 2 cell = 7.4V, 3 cell = 11.1V, and so on ..... :)

see 7.4v lipos are generaly higher than 8.4 and lower than 9.6. So yes it proves my point to be valid. :P

Edited by Vamp2269, 04 April 2010 - 11:00 PM.


#96 Guest_NumenoreanBlood_*

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Posted 05 April 2010 - 06:36 AM

View PostVamp2269, on 04 April 2010 - 10:57 PM, said:

see 7.4v lipos are generaly higher than 8.4 and lower than 9.6. So yes it proves my point to be valid. :P

That has more to do with the way that their voltage reacts when not in use verses when producing a current.  All batteries will show a much higher voltage when not in use, and that is what the battery is rated to.  Once you start to draw any significant current, however, their voltage will drop.  A LiPo may lose a volt or so when allowed to produce a current, but the NiMh (and NiCad) batteries will show a much higher voltage drop.  So, It's not that the 7.4v LiPo will produce a higher current than a 8.4v NiMh, but that the 8.4v NiMh's voltage will drop to have a lower voltage that whatever the LiPo's voltage will drop to.  This really doesn't have anything to do with the battery's ratings, but more with the differences in the different battery technologies.  Higher voltage still=higher ROF.  This is all stuff that I've seen proven in robotics, when our robot's battery will go from 12.8v to 10.6v just because we start to allow it to provide a current to the motors.

Edited by NumenoreanBlood, 05 April 2010 - 06:39 AM.


#97 Guest_allizard_*

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Posted 05 April 2010 - 08:28 AM

This is why I said you can't look at just one number.  You have to look at all three.

Take this for example.

a ) 7.4v 1600mah 15c
B ) 7.4v 2000mah 15c
c ) 7.4v 1600mah 25c


Guess which one will give you higher ROF?  C.  Grant it this battery won't last very long and will drain faster than A.

#98 Guest_NumenoreanBlood_*

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Posted 05 April 2010 - 09:33 AM

View Postallizard, on 05 April 2010 - 08:28 AM, said:

This is why I said you can't look at just one number.  You have to look at all three.

Take this for example.

a ) 7.4v 1600mah 15c
B ) 7.4v 2000mah 15c
c ) 7.4v 1600mah 25c


Guess which one will give you higher ROF?  C.  Grant it this battery won't last very long and will drain faster than A.
Then how come I'm using a 2200mAh, 25C continuous (55A), 35C burst (77A)  11.1v LiPo, and I'm still only getting about 19-20 bb's per second, which is exactly what my gun is rated at with a 11.1v, 1600mAh, 15A LiPo?  By what you're saying, shouldn't I be seeing something higher?  Also, I still get off well over 3,000 BB's off with one charge, so I don't think that it is draining very fast, as your example suggests that it would.

Edited by NumenoreanBlood, 05 April 2010 - 09:38 AM.


#99 chedeath

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Posted 05 April 2010 - 09:41 AM

View Postallizard, on 04 April 2010 - 03:16 PM, said:

Most people only recognized higher voltage gives higher ROF.  However, it's a lot more complicated and the formula involves Mah and Discharge rate and calculate the total Amperage.    So you have to look at the all 3 valuables together to determine how it gives higher ROF.

i agree. not about mah...., it is about the amps produced and the current that is being sent.

#100 Vamp2269

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Posted 05 April 2010 - 09:45 AM

View PostNumenoreanBlood, on 05 April 2010 - 09:33 AM, said:

Then how come I'm using a 2200mAh, 25C continuous (55A), 35C burst (77A)  11.1v LiPo, and I'm still only getting about 19-20 bb's per second, which is exactly what my gun is rated at with a 11.1v, 1600mAh, 15A LiPo?  By what you're saying, shouldn't I be seeing something higher?  Also, I still get off well over 3,000 BB's off with one charge, so I don't think that it is draining very fast, as your example suggests that it would.
how do you know that do you own a chrono with that can measure fire rate.




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