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Improving The Trigger Pull

KWA LM4 Two Stage Trigger

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#1 Jatodude

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 07:27 PM

I was just fiddling around with my LM4, racking the bolt and messing around with the trigger and I realized that the first stage of the trigger pull is rather stiff.  Now I'm not saying it's hard to pull back, but it's somewhat difficult to pull past the first stage and prepare for the shot.  I really want to get my LM4 shooting hard, towards 500fps, for a DMR type rifle.  For blasting away as fast as I can in firefights this isn't really a problem.  However when I'm trying to set up a shot, I don't want to accidentally shoot before I'm ready, missing and giving away my position.

Is there a way to make the first stage of the trigger pull softer, or possibly the second stage stiffer?  I'm not very familiar with GBBR's so I figured I'd throw it out there.  I'm sure someone would have use for this.

Any ideas BoobieM4H? Lol.

Edited by Jatodude, 15 June 2012 - 07:29 PM.


#2 niko_gpsy

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Posted 16 June 2012 - 04:45 AM

I think spiggy was working on a low mass bolt project with a modified light trigger pull for a faster cyclic rate.  When I get a chance I will ask him what needs to be modified on the trigger for a smoother/shorter trigger pull.

#3 Outlaw1995

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Posted 16 June 2012 - 06:15 AM

The trigger pull situation annoys me too... and I very much look forward to what Spiggy has in store. "Any ideas BoobieM4H?" ROFL

#4 Jatodude

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Posted 16 June 2012 - 09:24 AM

Low mass bolt? I don't want to do that lol.  I very much like the steel bolt.  There must be a way to soften the first stage, or stiffen the second.  Would it be possible to put something inside the trigger mechanism to stop the trigger right between the two stages, eliminating the first part of the trigger pull, for us who want a DMR? I think I saw a mod for a Hi-Capa like that once.

Maybe RA-Tech would be interested in making a precision trigger?  KWA maybe? It's a very important thing to have in real steel, but it's a subject I've really never seen airsofters discuss.  I'm pretty sure it's important in paintball too, I remember a buddy talking about a thousand dollar marker with a hair trigger.  Which makes me wonder, why not airsoft?

I think a lot of people play on semi auto only, even in CQB which surprised me.  This guy does some serious work with his LM4 in CQB while using semi auto.



#5 niko_gpsy

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Posted 16 June 2012 - 09:57 AM

A softer spring here and a little dremeling there and TaDaaa!  Now I have no idea where to dremel. LMAO

But competitive shooters do it all the time where they customize their triggers for faster response.  I will have to pester spiggy about giving me instructions with lots of pictures. :)

#6 BoobieM4H

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Posted 16 June 2012 - 11:29 AM

View PostJatodude, on 15 June 2012 - 07:27 PM, said:

I was just fiddling around with my LM4, racking the bolt and messing around with the trigger and I realized that the first stage of the trigger pull is rather stiff.  Now I'm not saying it's hard to pull back, but it's somewhat difficult to pull past the first stage and prepare for the shot.  I really want to get my LM4 shooting hard, towards 500fps, for a DMR type rifle.  For blasting away as fast as I can in firefights this isn't really a problem.  However when I'm trying to set up a shot, I don't want to accidentally shoot before I'm ready, missing and giving away my position.

Is there a way to make the first stage of the trigger pull softer, or possibly the second stage stiffer?  I'm not very familiar with GBBR's so I figured I'd throw it out there.  I'm sure someone would have use for this.

Any ideas BoobieM4H? Lol.
Yo what's up fellas..yea that was the first thing that annoyed me when I bought the gun..I got over it soon after cause I really didn't notice it when I used it. Then the other night I was looking at why the trigger is like that. Mine is not stiff..but its a long pull until its ready to fire. I think I know of a way to get rid of that long trigger pull. From what I could see where the hammer locks/engages with the trigger there's a lot of area that makes contact to set the hammer.. I think if I dremel off some material on the hammer I can get rid of that long trigger pull. But if I take off to much material my hammer is done for..I will be doing this mod soon. And ill do a video to show how its done!

Now I've done this type of mod before to all my other gbbr, WE, G&P, KJW, KA, even pistols..even hicapas..because a nice trigger pull is always a good thing..esspeciallu for a DMR.

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#7 Jatodude

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Posted 16 June 2012 - 12:02 PM

View PostJatodude, on 15 June 2012 - 07:27 PM, said:

Any ideas BoobieM4H? Lol.

Called it.

Anyways, don't mess it up lol.  If it works out I'd probably want to reduce that distance slightly,  But the thing that bugs me is it's difficult to know when it's going to fire while you're in the heat of battle and under pressure.  When you have a two stage, generally you should be able to easily feel when it stops, and that if you pull any more it will fire.  But I found out mid-game that it was easier to make one swift motion, which can lead to slight twitches that alter your aim.  It's not that big of a deal, but If I were to get an NPAS (Forgive me Allizard) and dial it up to about 500fps for a DMR, then it would be a bigger problem.

Also I just realized that the trigger doesn't return to it's original position when it's pulled back to the end of the first stage. Is that how it should be?  Or would there be a way to change that?

#8 Outlaw1995

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Posted 16 June 2012 - 12:24 PM

View PostJatodude, on 16 June 2012 - 12:02 PM, said:

  Also I just realized that the trigger doesn't return to it's original position when it's pulled back to the end of the first stage. Is that how it should be? Or would there be a way to change that?

Yep, that's how it should be. On both of my LM4s you pulled back, until you finally reached the breaking point. But there was no resistance up to that point, which also gives me confusion on whether or not the trigger is ready to fire. If you pull the "slack", you can actually put it back to original position by moving the trigger forward, or by putting the rifle back on safe. I have no clue how to change that extra slack the trigger gives you.

#9 Jatodude

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Posted 16 June 2012 - 12:50 PM



This video will explain better than I can with words.  My problem with the trigger is, sometimes it's difficult to get to the second stage without accidentally firing.

#10 BoobieM4H

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Posted 17 June 2012 - 09:41 AM

That video explains it well..I will try to figure out how to get to that second stage smoothly without an accidental fire. But by looking at the trigger set up I think I can only get rid of the first stage..and it will be jus pull and shoot..I guess a one stage? I don't know all the gun terminolgy lol

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#11 BoobieM4H

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Posted 17 June 2012 - 02:30 PM

Ok so I took the trigger group out of the LM4 today..I did some modification to the hammer. I took some material off with a dremel and made the contact area that engages with the trigger to a smaller, shorter surface. now with a light trigger pull and about 2mm into the pull the gun fires. I personally like it..I think I have a way to do a 2 stage trigger..it requires a 'step' on the hammer..it would require dremeling or filing that 'step' into the hammer where it engages with trigger.

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Edited by BoobieM4H, 17 June 2012 - 02:34 PM.


#12 BoobieM4H

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Posted 17 June 2012 - 02:49 PM

Where its highlighted is where I modified the hammer..that area where it engages with trigger is where I took some material off and made it shorter for the trigger to release hammer resulting in a much shorter trigger pull..and I like it a lot!
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Attached Files


Edited by BoobieM4H, 17 June 2012 - 03:28 PM.


#13 Jatodude

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Posted 17 June 2012 - 03:24 PM

Wow Boobie (LOL). That was pretty fast, I'm impressed with your ingenuity and bravery lol.  I might have to give that a shot, I will probably wait until I can get a replacement though, in case I mess up.  I'm sure that will improve the speed that you can fire in semi-auto, it'll be a much shorter pull.

If enough people would be interested, an aftermarket manufacturer would probably look into a precision trigger.  Has anyone ever seen them in GBBR's? I see it for spring snipers, but not for anything else.

#14 BoobieM4H

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Posted 17 June 2012 - 03:31 PM

View PostJatodude, on 17 June 2012 - 03:24 PM, said:

Wow Boobie (LOL). That was pretty fast, I'm impressed with your ingenuity and bravery lol.  I might have to give that a shot, I will probably wait until I can get a replacement though, in case I mess up.  I'm sure that will improve the speed that you can fire in semi-auto, it'll be a much shorter pull.

If enough people would be interested, an aftermarket manufacturer would probably look into a precision trigger.  Has anyone ever seen them in GBBR's? I see it for spring snipers, but not for anything else.

All I need is some motivation lol..(you guys). I haven't seen any after market precision triggers for gbbrs but then again I don't look for them because I mod it myself..and I'm sure people would be interested..but not sure if there will be enough people for them to produce and market the trigger.

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#15 BoobieM4H

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Posted 17 June 2012 - 05:05 PM

https://www.youtube....be_gdata_player

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#16 Jatodude

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Posted 17 June 2012 - 07:02 PM

It looks great man.  I just might abandon wanting to soften it up, and try that out.

#17 BoobieM4H

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Posted 17 June 2012 - 09:37 PM

View PostJatodude, on 17 June 2012 - 07:02 PM, said:

It looks great man.  I just might abandon wanting to soften it up, and try that out.

Wait till I put a few hundred or thoudand rounds through mine first k. I jus want to make sure it'll hold up..maybe KWA made it this way for a reason...or maybe not..you know?

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#18 Jatodude

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Posted 17 June 2012 - 09:45 PM

View PostBoobieM4H, on 17 June 2012 - 09:37 PM, said:

Wait till I put a few hundred or thoudand rounds through mine first k. I jus want to make sure it'll hold up..maybe KWA made it this way for a reason...or maybe not..you know?

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Either way, you're going to find out lol.

#19 BoobieM4H

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Posted 17 June 2012 - 10:06 PM

View PostJatodude, on 17 June 2012 - 09:45 PM, said:

Either way, you're going to find out lol.

This is true! You guys got anything else you want me to check out on the LM4? I'm taking requests lol...

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#20 Darth Genesis

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Posted 18 June 2012 - 10:35 AM

Maybe boobie will be the new airsoft innovations or Who ever and make all custom parts for GBBR and sell them to us.





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