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Things you should change about the KWA M4A1!


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#1 Moulde

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Posted 18 August 2008 - 04:31 AM

Hi..

I just bought a KWA m4a1 CQB, and im currently running it with a 12v elite 1700 mAh battery..
And I also have a G&P M4, and the G&P m4 is so easy to disasemble and upgrade..
The KWA just sucks at that point, because you guys copied some old design..

Why not copy classic army, G&P, G&G or any of the other AEG manufactorers..


Stuff i dont like..
- The outer parts is very shiny..
- The internal parts is build using a very old design..
- It is so hard to disasemble..
- The wirering sucks, why not use silicone wirering..
- The screws in the grip is ? selfcutting, and i wont have to screw em out and in many times to ruin the grip..
- The motor adjustment thing is also a very old marui design..
- Instead of a pinon screw in the muzzle hider you should just remove the spring behind the muzzlebreak and put a rubber ring like G&P, that works fabulusly..

- You should consider that your product with its internal strength is very interesting for people who never uses a standard gun, but upgrades it to recive max performance..
And you really put a stop to that with that nasty internal design  :(


I really hope you will look into some of the things..
Sorry my bad english..

Malte Hansen

#2 bigjohn

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Posted 18 August 2008 - 06:09 AM

hmmmmmmm i have 5 m4s jg, dboy, ca and 2 kwa's. all have v2 gearboxes. none as strong as the kwa. ive had to go into all of them (broken piston heads,striped pistons ect.) but not the kwa's and they have alot of rounds thru them.
the tb and firefly bucking was a little tricky to get in but other than that there holding up great.

bigjohn

Edited by bigjohn, 18 August 2008 - 06:10 AM.


#3 brooklyn468

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Posted 18 August 2008 - 08:43 AM

Marui gearboxes are classic and, in my opinion, very easy to upgrade. It is a lot easier to find an article how to take apart a marui gearbox than another one.

Which is how I learned how to take apart my KWA, and before that, my DBOYs :lol:

#4 DaTigah

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Posted 18 August 2008 - 02:53 PM

View PostMoulde, on Aug 18 2008, 08:31 AM, said:

Hi..

I just bought a KWA m4a1 CQB, and im currently running it with a 12v elite 1700 mAh battery..
And I also have a G&P M4, and the G&P m4 is so easy to disasemble and upgrade..
The KWA just sucks at that point, because you guys copied some old design..

Why not copy classic army, G&P, G&G or any of the other AEG manufactorers..


Stuff i dont like..
- The outer parts is very shiny..
- The internal parts is build using a very old design..
- It is so hard to disasemble..
- The wirering sucks, why not use silicone wirering..
- The screws in the grip is ? selfcutting, and i wont have to screw em out and in many times to ruin the grip..
- The motor adjustment thing is also a very old marui design..
- Instead of a pinon screw in the muzzle hider you should just remove the spring behind the muzzlebreak and put a rubber ring like G&P, that works fabulusly..

- You should consider that your product with its internal strength is very interesting for people who never uses a standard gun, but upgrades it to recive max performance..
And you really put a stop to that with that nasty internal design  :(


I really hope you will look into some of the things..
Sorry my bad english..

Malte Hansen

I think its great the way it is right now and not that hard to disassemble.  But it would be kinda nice to see a brand new and revolutionary internal design for future airsoft guns.

#5 Stealthmaster14

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Posted 18 August 2008 - 03:25 PM

not all designs are bad, we are still using several old designs in our modern world.  (I can't think of any right now, but they are some)

#6 vic_man4

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Posted 18 August 2008 - 05:27 PM

View PostDaTigah, on Aug 18 2008, 03:53 PM, said:

I think its great the way it is right now and not that hard to disassemble.  But it would be kinda nice to see a brand new and revolutionary internal design for future airsoft guns.

Systema Revolution = what your looking for.

Google it.

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Posted 21 August 2008 - 09:35 AM

View PostMoulde, on Aug 18 2008, 05:31 AM, said:

Hi..

I just bought a KWA m4a1 CQB, and im currently running it with a 12v elite 1700 mAh battery..
And I also have a G&P M4, and the G&P m4 is so easy to disasemble and upgrade..
The KWA just sucks at that point, because you guys copied some old design..

Why not copy classic army, G&P, G&G or any of the other AEG manufactorers..


Stuff i dont like..
- The outer parts is very shiny..
- The internal parts is build using a very old design..
- It is so hard to disasemble..
- The wirering sucks, why not use silicone wirering..
- The screws in the grip is ? selfcutting, and i wont have to screw em out and in many times to ruin the grip..
- The motor adjustment thing is also a very old marui design..
- Instead of a pinon screw in the muzzle hider you should just remove the spring behind the muzzlebreak and put a rubber ring like G&P, that works fabulusly..

- You should consider that your product with its internal strength is very interesting for people who never uses a standard gun, but upgrades it to recive max performance..
And you really put a stop to that with that nasty internal design  :(


I really hope you will look into some of the things..
Sorry my bad english..

Malte Hansen

Thank you for your suggestions.  Many of the points you've raised are already being considered for future revisions.  However I'm puzzled of your comment about disassembling.  What is it exactly that you think is difficult?  FYI, the wires we use are 50 strand insulated copper wires.  They are not considered cheap by any standards. ;)

#8 kelharis

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Posted 21 August 2008 - 02:58 PM

I gotta say, most of you all shoot in airsoft communities with some high fps, hehe.  Here in the NW we run 400 outdoors and 330 usually indoors.  400 from stock KWA is great for me, though I will have to spring downgrade once I go with the DBC tightbore.  As for CQB, I'd for sure have to downgrade even the CQB model.  Oh well, it's worth it for such a quality replica

#9 vic_man4

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Posted 21 August 2008 - 03:20 PM

View Postkelharis, on Aug 21 2008, 03:58 PM, said:

I gotta say, most of you all shoot in airsoft communities with some high fps, hehe.  Here in the NW we run 400 outdoors and 330 usually indoors.  400 from stock KWA is great for me, though I will have to spring downgrade once I go with the DBC tightbore.  As for CQB, I'd for sure have to downgrade even the CQB model.  Oh well, it's worth it for such a quality replica

The restrictions are the same here currently. We are looking for a warehouse to play CQB so I have to find a good CQB gun or upgrade my Mp5. 350FPS is our restriction though, +/- 10 FPS.

#10 brooklyn468

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Posted 21 August 2008 - 04:06 PM

Vic Man, yours is worse than mine, but our FPS limit is 400fps with anything that is not a spring or gas bolt action rifle. Guess I will have to whip out my UTG m324 and get that tightbore for it.

Might want to upgrade it to gen. 3 while I am at it...

Back to subject, in my opinion, the KWA is perfect the way it is. I have no complaints about it that are signifigant. However, before I switched to a crane stock, I did notice how hard it was to remove the handguard, compared to ICS and a few other companies. There were and still are visible chuncks of skin on my delta ring! :lol:

So in a way, I am always going to be touching my KM4a1 :lol:

#11 Dr Pepper 6pk

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Posted 21 August 2008 - 05:25 PM

Just wondering, but does anyone know, when exactly the first KWA M4A1 AEG came to the market?

#12 vic_man4

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Posted 21 August 2008 - 05:37 PM

View PostDr Pepper 6pk, on Aug 21 2008, 06:25 PM, said:

Just wondering, but does anyone know, when exactly the first KWA M4A1 AEG came to the market?

Mid september 2007 some time if I'm remembering correctly  :unsure:

Edited by vic_man4, 21 August 2008 - 05:37 PM.


#13 Dr Pepper 6pk

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Posted 21 August 2008 - 07:52 PM

View Postvic_man4, on Aug 21 2008, 06:37 PM, said:

Mid september 2007 some time if I'm remembering correctly  :unsure:
Ok cool, do you know if they changed anything major inbetween September and December? Because I bought my KWA M4s during Dec.

#14 karMeister

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Posted 22 August 2008 - 12:26 AM

Hi..

I just bought a KWA m4a1 CQB, and im currently running it with a 12v elite 1700 mAh battery..
And I also have a G&P M4, and the G&P m4 is so easy to disasemble and upgrade..
The KWA just sucks at that point, because you guys copied some old design..

Why not copy classic army, G&P, G&G or any of the other AEG manufactorers..

From the looks of your questions I dont think youve even owned any other AEG. because the KWA is superior exept for the finish where G&P would stand out



Stuff i dont like..
- The outer parts is very shiny..

HUH? My real steel is shiny!

- The internal parts is build using a very old design..
Are you shure you got the KWA?  Its gearbox is the sandard V2 but it tougher thn most stock gearboxes out there.
- It is so hard to disasemble..

I really dont get you... My 13 year old brother can take it apart.

- The wirering sucks, why not use silicone wirering..

Im starting to think you didnt get a KWA. The wiring is superb on the KWA

- The screws in the grip is ? selfcutting, and i wont have to screw em out and in many times to ruin the grip..
Why bother?  Youll upgrade to a PTS or any aftermarket parts anyway?

- The motor adjustment thing is also a very old marui design..
I dont see it as a problem

- Instead of a pinon screw in the muzzle hider you should just remove the spring behind the muzzlebreak and put a rubber ring like G&P, that works fabulusly..

My realsteel doesnt have an allen screw. But I dont consider it an issue.

- You should consider that your product with its internal strength is very interesting for people who never uses a standard gun, but upgrades it to recive max performance..
And you really put a stop to that with that nasty internal design  :(
huh?

I really hope you will look into some of the things..
Sorry my bad english..

Malte Hansen

Edited by karMeister, 22 August 2008 - 12:29 AM.


#15 Moulde

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Posted 22 August 2008 - 12:54 AM

View PostRadix, on Aug 21 2008, 09:35 AM, said:

Thank you for your suggestions.  Many of the points you've raised are already being considered for future revisions.  However I'm puzzled of your comment about disassembling.  What is it exactly that you think is difficult?  FYI, the wires we use are 50 strand insulated copper wires.  They are not considered cheap by any standards. ;)

I call the wirering crap cause it is so stiff..
And when soldering the plastic melts, that wont happen with silicone wirering..

And why not make a reinforced gearbox in a stronger material instead of a old marui in a stronger material?

I cant even put a systems hopup in it?

And i discovered another thing, when running 12v elite 1700 mAh the rate of fire is a little high..
And the current "roll" in the hopup unit is too soft to make the bb's spin when firering full auto..

You should make a deal with big out, they make solid plastic hopup "roll"s with would eliminate that problem..
Right now i shoot much longer when semitapping, than when firering in FA..

#16 Moulde

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Posted 22 August 2008 - 01:18 AM

View PostkarMeister, on Aug 22 2008, 12:26 AM, said:

Hi..

I just bought a KWA m4a1 CQB, and im currently running it with a 12v elite 1700 mAh battery..
And I also have a G&P M4, and the G&P m4 is so easy to disasemble and upgrade..
The KWA just sucks at that point, because you guys copied some old design..

Why not copy classic army, G&P, G&G or any of the other AEG manufactorers..

From the looks of your questions I dont think youve even owned any other AEG. because the KWA is superior exept for the finish where G&P would stand out


Erm, yes i do..
If you think the KWA is superior then you obviesly never had a G&P between your hands..
Im not saying i cant disassemble it, but it is much easier to open up a G&P, just plug out the pin, take the upper reciver off..
then the grip, stock, a few more pins and then the mag catch..


Stuff i dont like..
- The outer parts is very shiny..

HUH? My real steel is shiny!

That's the impression my friends got when they saw the gun



- The internal parts is build using a very old design..
Are you shure you got the KWA?  Its gearbox is the sandard V2 but it tougher thn most stock gearboxes out there.

Lawl, yes im pretty sure the one i got is a KWA..
And yes, but why use a standard v2 gearbox..
why not use a reinforced one..


- It is so hard to disasemble..

I really dont get you... My 13 year old brother can take it apart.

Compared to a G&P, then yes it is a bitch to open up!


- The wirering sucks, why not use silicone wirering..

Im starting to think you didnt get a KWA. The wiring is superb on the KWA


Then you again obviesly never had good wirering in you hands..
Silicone wirering wont melt when soldering
and it is so much more flexible..
The current wirering in the KWA is very stiff..


- The screws in the grip is ? selfcutting, and i wont have to screw em out and in many times to ruin the grip..
Why bother?  Youll upgrade to a PTS or any aftermarket parts anyway?

Then why bother building it using a stronger gearbox?
The customers will probable just install a systema box anyway..

I dont want a gun where i have to buy parts just to make sure it wont crack..
Just take a look at the G&P, they have all the good stuff, reinforced gearbox, pretty good motor, easy to modify, easy to disassemble, unfortunantly not silicone wirering..
And the G&P is 8$ cheaper than the KWA on wgcshop.com ...


- The motor adjustment thing is also a very old marui design..
I dont see it as a problem

Now im starting to wonder if you have ever had anything other than a marui rifle and now a kwa?
Again again again, why not use a grip like G&P, without that stupid little metal shim thing, thats placed behind the motor..

Another unnessisary thing..


- Instead of a pinon screw in the muzzle hider you should just remove the spring behind the muzzlebreak and put a rubber ring like G&P, that works fabulusly..
My realsteel doesnt have an allen screw. But I dont consider it an issue.

But why is it there?
The muzzle hider will stay fine on a G&P with a rubber ring, on the KWA you just replace the spring behind it with a rubber ring, and remove the allen screw in the muzzle hider..

Its much simplier..

Just for the record, i already removed the spring and the allen screw..
And i assure you, the muzzle hider will stay there no matter how much you torture the rifle..

The other thing about the allen screw is that when people get it, they may want to screw off things to see how it works and stuff like that, and they may not see the allen screw, and just use muscle or some tool to take it off..
And bang, nomore thread on the outher barrel..


- You should consider that your product with its internal strength is very interesting for people who never uses a standard gun, but upgrades it to recive max performance..
And you really put a stop to that with that nasty internal design  :(
huh?

huh what?
Why use a old design, when there is so much better and easier solutions out there??


I really hope you will look into some of the things..
Sorry my bad english..

Malte Hansen

Edited by Moulde, 22 August 2008 - 01:19 AM.


#17 karMeister

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Posted 22 August 2008 - 08:53 AM

QUOTE (karMeister @ Aug 22 2008, 12:26 AM)
Hi..

I just bought a KWA m4a1 CQB, and im currently running it with a 12v elite 1700 mAh battery..
And I also have a G&P M4, and the G&P m4 is so easy to disasemble and upgrade..
The KWA just sucks at that point, because you guys copied some old design..

Why not copy classic army, G&P, G&G or any of the other AEG manufactorers..

From the looks of your questions I dont think youve even owned any other AEG. because the KWA is superior exept for the finish where G&P would stand out

Erm, yes i do..
If you think the KWA is superior then you obviesly never had a G&P between your hands..
Im not saying i cant disassemble it, but it is much easier to open up a G&P, just plug out the pin, take the upper reciver off..
then the grip, stock, a few more pins and then the mag catch..


* You obviously didnt read or understand what I just said.  I said the G&P is superior in terms of finish and markings.


Stuff i dont like..
- The outer parts is very shiny..

HUH? My real steel is shiny!

That's the impression my friends got when they saw the gun

*Its just like the ICS Finish Matte black... I dont thinks its shiny... Dont compare it to the anodized body the G&P has. G&Ps have the best finish IMO. I suggested about the KWA finish on an erlier thread caus ethe KWA markings just looks like a cheap Dboys aeg.
- The internal parts is build using a very old design..
Are you shure you got the KWA? Its gearbox is the sandard V2 but it tougher thn most stock gearboxes out there.

Lawl, yes im pretty sure the one i got is a KWA..
And yes, but why use a standard v2 gearbox..
why not use a reinforced one..

*It is reinforced, Why use a standard V2? because thats what 99% of the airsoft community wants. Compatibility to aftermarket parts.

- It is so hard to disasemble..

I really dont get you... My 13 year old brother can take it apart.

Compared to a G&P, then yes it is a bitch to open up!

*Who told you that your friends? Dude its basically the same thing!


- The wirering sucks, why not use silicone wirering..

Im starting to think you didnt get a KWA. The wiring is superb on the KWA

Then you again obviesly never had good wirering in you hands..
Silicone wirering wont melt when soldering
and it is so much more flexible..
The current wirering in the KWA is very stiff..

*Ohh so thats why Systema  (a 1,000U$+  STOCK AEG ) also uses "cheap copper wires"
- The screws in the grip is ? selfcutting, and i wont have to screw em out and in many times to ruin the grip..
Why bother? Youll upgrade to a PTS or any aftermarket parts anyway?

Then why bother building it using a stronger gearbox?
The customers will probable just install a systema box anyway..

*Lol! You upgrade your grip for the looks. Airsoft is about UPGRADING. Thats what the Airsoft Market is all about.

I dont want a gun where i have to buy parts just to make sure it wont crack..
Just take a look at the G&P, they have all the good stuff, reinforced gearbox, pretty good motor, easy to modify, easy to disassemble, unfortunantly not silicone wirering..
And the G&P is 8$ cheaper than the KWA on wgcshop.com ...


- The motor adjustment thing is also a very old marui design..
I dont see it as a problem

Now im starting to wonder if you have ever had anything other than a marui rifle and now a kwa?
Again again again, why not use a grip like G&P, without that stupid little metal shim thing, thats placed behind the motor..
Another unnessisary thing..

*Yes Marui, ICS, Guarder ak74u kit, Inokatsu ak74u kit, G&P M4 metal body and recently a KWA.
That "stupid metalshim thing" is there so your mottor doesnt land on your allen screw.




- Instead of a pinon screw in the muzzle hider you should just remove the spring behind the muzzlebreak and put a rubber ring like G&P, that works fabulusly..
My realsteel doesnt have an allen screw. But I dont consider it an issue.

But why is it there?
The muzzle hider will stay fine on a G&P with a rubber ring, on the KWA you just replace the spring behind it with a rubber ring, and remove the allen screw in the muzzle hider..

Its much simplier..

Just for the record, i already removed the spring and the allen screw..
And i assure you, the muzzle hider will stay there no matter how much you torture the rifle..


* Yes I took mine out aswell. And instaled a bonecrusher. I dont think its worth making a fuzz about.

The other thing about the allen screw is that when people get it, they may want to screw off things to see how it works and stuff like that, and they may not see the allen screw, and just use muscle or some tool to take it off..
And bang, nomore thread on the outher barrel..


- You should consider that your product with its internal strength is very interesting for people who never uses a standard gun, but upgrades it to recive max performance..
And you really put a stop to that with that nasty internal design  
huh?

huh what?
Why use a old design, when there is so much better and easier solutions out there??

*let me quote this again : "Why us a standard design? because thats what 99% of the airsoft community wants. Compatibility to aftermarket parts"


I really hope you will look into some of the things..
Sorry my bad english..


Malte Hansen

Edited by karMeister, 22 August 2008 - 08:56 AM.


#18 crimsonfalcon07

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Posted 22 August 2008 - 09:22 AM

Stop arguing.  This is a feedback thread--it's not for other people who disagree to argue.  How is KWA supposed to keep improving their products if people like you shoot down suggestions?  The G&P is a bit easier to disassemble--the tolerances are tight enough on the KWA that it CAN be pretty challenging to disassemble, and in fact that's a fairly common issue for people that are used to other guns.

As for parts compatibility, that's NOT really what most of us should be looking for, nor is it what KWA seems to be shooting for.  KWA seems to be aiming at providing a replica that you don't HAVE to upgrade (like a PTW, for instance).

Now, I don't have any concerns for the design, but hey, as long as you're worrying about G&P designs, why not copy some of the ICS features?  Two part gearbox for a quick spring swap would be nice, as would a blowback design.  I certainly wouldn't complain about either of those.

KarMeister, it's in very poor form to argue with someone trying to provide constructive feedback.  While it may be good enough for you, other people may want to see a better product that's different from the rest of the market in more than just strength of externals.  Be CONSTRUCTIVE, not DESTRUCTIVE.

End of rant.

#19 karMeister

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Posted 22 August 2008 - 10:04 AM

View Postcrimsonfalcon07, on Aug 22 2008, 09:22 AM, said:

Stop arguing.  This is a feedback thread--it's not for other people who disagree to argue.  How is KWA supposed to keep improving their products if people like you shoot down suggestions?  The G&P is a bit easier to disassemble--the tolerances are tight enough on the KWA that it CAN be pretty challenging to disassemble, and in fact that's a fairly common issue for people that are used to other guns.

As for parts compatibility, that's NOT really what most of us should be looking for, nor is it what KWA seems to be shooting for.  KWA seems to be aiming at providing a replica that you don't HAVE to upgrade (like a PTW, for instance).

Now, I don't have any concerns for the design, but hey, as long as you're worrying about G&P designs, why not copy some of the ICS features?  Two part gearbox for a quick spring swap would be nice, as would a blowback design.  I certainly wouldn't complain about either of those.

KarMeister, it's in very poor form to argue with someone trying to provide constructive feedback.  While it may be good enough for you, other people may want to see a better product that's different from the rest of the market in more than just strength of externals.  Be CONSTRUCTIVE, not DESTRUCTIVE.

End of rant.



Did i give you the impression that I was arguing?  
I was plainly making comments about the suggestions he gave saying that I was "shooting it down" would be harsh.
Yes this is a feedback thread and for some reason its also called a forum.  


Quote

"As for parts compatibility, that's NOT really what most of us should be looking for, nor is it what KWA seems to be shooting for.  KWA seems to be aiming at providing a replica that you don't HAVE to upgrade (like a PTW, for instance)."

I beg to disagree.. like any other hobby compatibility is a major issue.  A PTW BTW also has upgrade parts.
KWAs efforts to add a 9mm and 8mm dia bearings are great. Its just that the airsoft market has to catch up with the idea since 9mm bushings were first made for M249s and you have to get 2 sets (9mm and 8mm) if you want plain Bushings (not bearings) to make it tougher to handle an m150, m160, m170  or m190.

Like you the design doesnt concern me most. I was talking about the anodize finish and the engraved marking.
IMO A blowback would be just for the looks and it would sureley mess up your groupings. The ICS however is a great design...considering KWA if from the same place where ICS is from, I woudnt be surprised if they take that idea if there are no legal ties on the design that is. i have the ICS but if KWA makes one with the same function/design.. id get the KWA becuase it has better craftmanship compared my ICS

For the record.. I did agree about the ugly "D-boys"  like finish and the allen on the flash hider.
Saying that the copper wires on the KWA are cheap or the gearbox design should be changed would be something I would have to disagree on and it looks like some people who know what theyr talking about like Radix also disagreed.  

People make suggestions and thats great.  If you think im not making sense Id rather have you say that straight to my face than just say that "its noted and that theyre going to do somthing about it.".

Will all due respect  crimsonfalcon07 , I dont see anything destructive about that, do you?

Edited by karMeister, 22 August 2008 - 11:06 AM.


#20 Guest_allizard_*

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Posted 23 August 2008 - 08:02 PM

If this is a normal airsoft forum I would probably join in the argument.  Yes KarMeister.  I see this is still an argument. ... not destructive... just still argument none the less.  KWA Forum is open to public so people can make suggestion.  Validate or not, useful or not.  I may not agree what the poster said but since they are here to make a suggestion. I'm just going to let it be.  And with that note.  I'm closing this thread.




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