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I want to get a recoil kit but I want to upgrade all the internals first.


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#1 mrpotatoes

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 04:46 PM

I'm looking to buy a KWA LM4 in the next couple of weeks but one thing that I really want out of it is to have as much realistic recoil as possible. I've done a bunch of research to get information on recoil kits and the Angry Gun is one but that will destroy a stock LM4. I've heard of the Blowback Armory and one other that I can't remember the name of.

I got some advice that in order to play with a recoil kit I'll need to upgrade the internals. This is where I am at a loss. I don't know what to upgrade or what parts and I would love some pointers as to what can be upgraded. I'm looking to upgrade any part that I can to steel so it's strong and that I can use one of those kits (I'm thinking BBA at this point).

I tried going through the "3Rd Party Compatibility List" but there is no master list and within the first 10 pages I didn't see, or perhaps missed, any relevant information to internal upgrades.

Any help would be appreciated.

#2 BeachEMT

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 05:45 PM

I would steer clear of BBA. Both Boobie and I have had trouble with them and I can tell you from personal experience their customer service sucks. I have been waiting for 6 months to get a part they forgot to ship with my order. Problem is you need a steel buffer catch to run a steel buffer and BBA is the only one who makes one. Maybe someone else knows a better source.

#3 mrpotatoes

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 06:44 PM

Would a steel buffer catch work with the AngryGun kit (without massive damage) or an RA Tech kit?

#4 BeachEMT

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 07:11 PM

It's hard to say, but I would imagine so. It's not that it's a problem with the interaction between the buffer and lock that will break the gun. It has to do with the velocity and weight (momentum) of the buffer. Problems can be caused if the buffer has too much momentum (broken buffer catch) or too much velocity (rounded bolt catches, broken followers, broken nozzles). These problems exist with all the aftermarket recoil systems. Also your gas efficiency will suffer greatly.

#5 BoobieM4H

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 01:30 PM

Yes..steer clear if bba..specially if you have to place an order online. Who knows when you'll get your order. Also bba can't even assemble an lm4 hop up unit together correctly..nor put it the correct parts..Darkstar from the forums here actually came to my house with his lm4 that bba worked on..and WOW is all I have to say. That says alot about this so called "Blowback" company. If you want to be a "tester" for bba products..by all means go for it..

Sorry if I got a lil sidetracked .

Im my personal lm4 I use cut down to proper length real  A2 buffer and custom made buffer lock. Im satisfied with the added recoil from that. Understand that the more recoil added to a system is gonna cause wear and tear faster. All that energy has to be transferred somewhere. All the steel you put inside of it something will still give eventually..just quicker with more recoil.

( o Y o )



#6 General Pickle

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 05:19 PM

There's only one or two people who I trust enough to touch my guns insides besides myself, that being my VERY experienced teammate or maybe Boobie. All the other techs locally for me are pretty iffy, especially with GBB guns. I don't have personal experience with Boobie or his work but I get a good vibe from what I do see, particularly when I see your team giving guns to guys in need (That's right, I see what you did there!) and good sportsmanship etc. not to mention the many videos showing how to work on the insides yourself. I haven't dealt with BBA before but if they have a steel buffer lock then... eh, could be worth a shot. Personally I think the LM4 has plenty of recoil as it is, plus I'd prefer to get as much gas efficiency out of it as possible.

#7 BeachEMT

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 06:23 PM

Boobie- Do you have a better source for a steel buffer catch than BBA? After dealing with them, I really don't want to order anything else from them.

Back on topic, if you are worried about gas efficiency or internal wear, stay away from heavy recoil systems. I think there is a way to properly create a heavy recoil system that won't effect efficiency, but no one has done it yet for the LM4.

#8 BoobieM4H

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 10:58 PM

sorry..unfortunately bba is the only company that has the steel buffer lock. and thanks General Pickle..its just what we do...and hey i was just helping out a friend in need..thats all. just like we try to help folks around here..

i agree..the lm4 has enough recoil as it is..trying to make it a recoil beast is just asking for trouble..theres a reason why no one runs an angry gun kit..they might have tried..but trust me..that ag buffer is no longer in their gun. youll loose gas effeciency..which the lm4 is really good at..and kwa designed well. changing that will only make things worse..not worth it to feel that extra kick

#9 BeachEMT

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 11:50 PM

I would love to have a little extra kick to bring it up to par with a 5.56 AR, as I use mine for training. In my professional opinion, a heavy recoil kit wouldn't reduce gas efficiency or cause excess wear and tear if properly designed. It would require the buffer were properly weighted and ported, and matched with an appropriate spring. No company has put that much effort into it. That's why their kits break guns.

#10 mr.ying

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 10:43 PM

Does anyone know about the ra tech version 3 recoil buffer set? from what gecko actual says, he said he hasn't had any problems yet under the comment section. Did anyone install this yet?

#11 BeachEMT

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 11:43 PM

Ask him yourself. He's on these forums as akiraspeedstar.

#12 Maximusmjg

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 08:07 AM

View Postmr.ying, on 06 June 2013 - 10:43 PM, said:

Does anyone know about the ra tech version 3 recoil buffer set? from what gecko actual says, he said he hasn't had any problems yet under the comment section. Did anyone install this yet?
I installed it in mine and was experiencing problems with the bolt hitting the hop up chamber so hard that the nozzle was pushing the bb past the nub and affecting the performance of the shot they would just drop at about 10ft. This is my PERSONAL experience. I took the kit back out and installed the stock buffer and spring and it ran great again.

#13 netpoc

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 11:18 AM

Was the buffer spring strength the same as the oem?

#14 Maximusmjg

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 12:00 PM

No I even put the stock buffer spring back in with the RA Tech buffer and it still did it. However I put the RA Tech spring in with the stock buffer and it worked fine. It had something to do with the weight of the RA Tech buffer. Please keep in mind u also had a stock hop up rubber in while trying this process

#15 mrpotatoes

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 02:32 PM

Thanks for all the replies guys. I think I'll do what boobie has done (is there a tutorial somewhere?) and instead do the regular internal and external upgrades. I'll make another thread to see if anyone can help me out with that as this is my first M4. All my other guns are mostly stock minus things like new barrels.

Thanks a lot everyone!

#16 netpoc

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 02:39 PM

View PostMaximusmjg, on 07 June 2013 - 12:00 PM, said:

No I even put the stock buffer spring back in with the RA Tech buffer and it still did it. However I put the RA Tech spring in with the stock buffer and it worked fine. It had something to do with the weight of the RA Tech buffer. Please keep in mind u also had a stock hop up rubber in while trying this process

So was it stronger or weaker than stock?

#17 mr.ying

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 12:09 AM

View PostBeachEMT, on 06 June 2013 - 11:43 PM, said:

Ask him yourself. He's on these forums as akiraspeedstar.

damnnn his inbox is filled he can't receive any more msgs

#18 -wigs-

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 01:59 AM

I had no problems running about 2500 rounds through mine with the ratech kit. Only reason I took it out was cause I'm fine with the stock recoil.
You have to make sure all the spacers go in and lay flat.

#19 BoobieM4H

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 10:12 PM

Just run it stock..bottom line..

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#20 BeachEMT

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 11:17 PM

Yeah there are no good recoil kits on the market, yet.

Boobie- Do you know if anyone has validated BBA's claim that their kit increases WE AR's gas efficiency? If is true then there might be hope for a good kit (just not from BBA).




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