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Kwa Kriss Vector Magazines

KWA Kriss Vector magazines

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#21 Grady the Scot

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 03:33 PM

Solscud007, sorry to hear you have such a hard time getting mags for your KRISS Vector.  I do have to agree with Grindstone on this one though. I was really looking forward to having such an awesome gun with a pistol that matched.  Now that it is not a possibility, I am reconsidering saving up for the KWA KRISS Vector.

I won't lie.  The money you save buying mags for one gun that fit in two is a good bit and although I know KWA made the mags proprietary to make an extra buck that's not what is bothering me most.

I was really looking forward to being able to use my teammates ATP/M18/FPG  mags in a pinch.  

Not having to carry as many mags would also be a plus, because I know they will fit in the pistol on my leg or the Vector in my hand.  

Then if you are playing a game and your Vector jams, you still have a pistol with the same amount of rounds that you had for your vector to finish off the game.  

Or if you run into a situation where speed is paramount, you can set down your Vector and run with your ATP AUTO to gain that extra bit of maneuverability without sacrificing firepower.

I don't expect to change everyone's mind on the subject, but I pray that KWA will hear my cry.

#22 Paul202

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 06:26 PM

View PostGrady the Scot, on 15 February 2012 - 03:33 PM, said:

Solscud007, sorry to hear you have such a hard time getting mags for your KRISS Vector.  I do have to agree with Grindstone on this one though. I was really looking forward to having such an awesome gun with a pistol that matched.  Now that it is not a possibility, I am reconsidering saving up for the KWA KRISS Vector.

I won't lie.  The money you save buying mags for one gun that fit in two is a good bit and although I know KWA made the mags proprietary to make an extra buck that's not what is bothering me most.

I was really looking forward to being able to use my teammates ATP/M18/FPG  mags in a pinch.  

Not having to carry as many mags would also be a plus, because I know they will fit in the pistol on my leg or the Vector in my hand.  

Then if you are playing a game and your Vector jams, you still have a pistol with the same amount of rounds that you had for your vector to finish off the game.  

Or if you run into a situation where speed is paramount, you can set down your Vector and run with your ATP AUTO to gain that extra bit of maneuverability without sacrificing firepower.

I don't expect to change everyone's mind on the subject, but I pray that KWA will hear my cry.
KWA makes their guns for law enforcement training, so they have to be as accurate to thr real steel version of the gun as can be. Having the ability to use the G-Series magazines in the KRISS would b completely unrealistic. I understand where you are coming from, as I myself have a sizable collection of M-Series mags. But if you want KWA to stay true to their world renowned reputation of making some of the most accurate airoft replicas available on the market, than that is the price you must pay.

#23 Grady the Scot

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 07:24 PM

View PostPaul202, on 15 February 2012 - 06:26 PM, said:

KWA makes their guns for law enforcement training, so they have to be as accurate to thr real steel version of the gun as can be. Having the ability to use the G-Series magazines in the KRISS would b completely unrealistic. I understand where you are coming from, as I myself have a sizable collection of M-Series mags. But if you want KWA to stay true to their world renowned reputation of making some of the most accurate airoft replicas available on the market, than that is the price you must pay.
Oh I'm definitely willing to pay for the KWA Kriss and extra magazines.  It would be nice if the mags fit from an ATP/M series.  That is why I would suggest a ATP .45.  That way KWA can sell more guns with only a little modification to the existing ATP design and the consumer can get a pistol that works with the mags from this cool little smg AND a .45 caliber bodied ATP IS realistic.  Everyone is happy.

#24 Lizzard

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 12:46 AM

View PostOceanpelt, on 15 February 2012 - 05:38 AM, said:

The Fpg uses M18 mags, both in airsoft and in real life. The Kriss uses g21 mags. So it's actual realism.
...Why are you telling me this, exactly?  I don't understand how that's relevant, as I did not mention the FPG, nor was I arguing that the Vector should use M18 magazines.


View PostGrindstone, on 15 February 2012 - 10:56 AM, said:

Some considerations:
Make a ".45" ATP series or swallow the stitch-counting "realism" of having a magazine be a few mms off of the real steel for the sake of conveniencing your consumer base.

If a slight dimentional difference in the magazine throws you off, then why not the bright white "KWA" and "6mm" stamped on the side?



Strawman, the MP7, MP9 and M11 don't utilize the same magazine of an established pistol, unlike the Kriss.


To be honest, when I learned the Kriss would be using proprietary magazines, it was a big let-down for me. So much so it has made me reconsider planning to purchase the Kriss, as mags are expensive as it is and having to buy a whole new set just kills it.
For the training aspect, the "KWA" and "6mm BB" trades do not affect how the gun works, and make it easier to differentiate from a weapon that fires .45 ACP.

And sure, you're right, but it's the principle of the matter.  Why is it just assumed that the Vector would use KWA's old Glock magazines?  Just because it uses magazines from a similar gun to the guns KWA has made magazines for?  That doesn't really make sense.

There's also more involved than just the size of the magazine.  The reciever dimensions would have to be changed, and for training purposes, the magazines would be noticeably different from the real thing, which is silly if the gun is marketed as the training package for KRISS' Vector.

#25 Grindstone

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 07:30 AM

View PostSolscud007, on 15 February 2012 - 12:45 PM, said:

Grindstone, it pays to play. My real steel mags only hold 13 rds and brand new cost up to $40. Tack on another $35 for the KRISS Magex extension to make it a full 30 rds in the KRISS Vector.

Now given the fact that I live in a state that has Mag cap laws I have to use pre-ban mags to legally use my extension. So the $40 mag now doubles in price to get the pre-ban versions.

You want to play you have to play. Save up and buy a couple mags.
Ok, but you can use those same mags with a Glock 21. So you're not buying proprietary magazines that are meant for use with only one gun.
Then again, you're speaking of a real firearm, where I am discussing an airsoft gun.


View PostLizzard, on 16 February 2012 - 12:46 AM, said:

For the training aspect, the "KWA" and "6mm BB" trades do not affect how the gun works, and make it easier to differentiate from a weapon that fires .45 ACP.

And sure, you're right, but it's the principle of the matter.  Why is it just assumed that the Vector would use KWA's old Glock magazines?  Just because it uses magazines from a similar gun to the guns KWA has made magazines for?  That doesn't really make sense.

There's also more involved than just the size of the magazine.  The reciever dimensions would have to be changed, and for training purposes, the magazines would be noticeably different from the real thing, which is silly if the gun is marketed as the training package for KRISS' Vector.

A few mms of dimensional difference has no effect on training or how the gun works. If it did, then all the agencies using AEGs are fail, as the AEG M4 magazines are very much different from their real counterparts.
I don't know about you, but I can tell my airsofts apart from my real steel easily enough.

It makes plenty of economic sense when the majority of your consumers don't have a public service department's budget behind them. I assumed they would use the same magazines because of the overall aesthetics are the same. KWA also wouldn't need to make an entirely different magazine as they could just continue producing the ATP and FPG magazines as normal. Does this still not make sense?
The whole intention for using Glock 21 magazines with the Kriss was for cross-compatibility. Why else wouldn't TDI just make their own proprietary mags for the Kriss?

Making the mag well a few mms thicker would not require a complete redesign of the entire gun. And, as stated before, a few mm difference in thickness does not affect training. It is not noticable.

I know it's completely out of my hands, it's just a big disappointment to me. I probably wouldn't care so much if there was an "APT21" on the market, but since there isn't, I'll just sick with the 19/17/18/FPGs as I can swap mags between them all (obviously, bar the 19's mags).

Edited by Grindstone, 17 February 2012 - 07:33 AM.


#26 Lizzard

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 09:56 PM

Yes, I understand where you're coming from, sure it would be convenient for those of us with a stockpile of KWA magazines.  But let's be honest, I doubt most Glock/ATP owners have a stockpile of the extended magazines, which are the magazines I would think would be most popular with this gun, as it will best suit its primary weapon role.  And vice-versa, most people running the ATP as a secondary are not going to use extended magazines.

Still, it's still not logical to expect the gun to run on those 9mm style mags.  The extended G21 magazines also have a different shape to them,  with the bottom part being wider, instead of being the same size all the way through.  And as I've said before, I'm glad they didn't, as those mags with exposed BBs are just not a good idea.  Do you guys ever play on an outdoor field?  those mags get dirt in them so fast it's not even funny, so don't say "well if you keep them well cleaned, they'll work fine."  And I'd rather not try and tape it up.

#27 Solscud007

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 06:11 AM

View PostGrindstone, on 17 February 2012 - 07:30 AM, said:


A few mms of dimensional difference has no effect on training or how the gun works. If it did, then all the agencies using AEGs are fail, as the AEG M4 magazines are very much different from their real counterparts.
I don't know about you, but I can tell my airsofts apart from my real steel easily enough.


The whole intention for using Glock 21 magazines with the Kriss was for cross-compatibility. Why else wouldn't TDI just make their own proprietary mags for the Kriss?

Actually it is a little more than just that with regards to the mags.

KRISS USA doesn't have to spend money to make the magazine. Simple as that. The glock mags are great and reliable.

Back to Airsoft vs real steel. Isnt the PTW by systema supposed to truly replicate the weight and feel of the real steel?

I think it would be a smart move for KWA to make a side arm. That can use the Vector mags. But let's be honest. There are so many people who want the KRISS Vector that they don't care about the mag issue. The KRISS vector is a definite must buy for thousands of people. I have one and still want this thing.

And in all honesty, other than taking a mag from a friend, would you really take a mag out of your sidearm and use it in the Vector? Why not just transition to your side arm and engage your target. It's not like the Vector will get better range than a handgun.

Just buy more mags. Also it seems that KWA will make the shorter pistol mags.

Lizzard, the wider section at the bottom half of the mag has no bearing on the mag being used in a Glock 21. The extended Vector mags are a 13 rd glock 21 mag with merely a +17 rd extension. You remove the floor plate, slide the extension over the mag body. Replace the spring and install the insert. The floor plate installs onto the bottom of the insert.


If KWA designs a sidearm to use the glock mags, then it would be easy to accommodate the wider extension. Where the floor plate meets the glock of a seated normal mag, the extension is the same dimensions. Hope that makes sense. Im gonna shoot a friend's glock 21 this Sunday. I will take pics to show you what it looks like with the extension.







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