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ATP Auto Semi Problem & Upgrade Question


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#1 jcleland

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 01:16 PM

I've been pretty deep inside my ATP Auto, but actually GAVE UP trying to reassemble the hammer/whatever assembly. Bought a new one instead. Lol. Loser. Hey, I have spare parts...

Anyway, I'd like a stiffer hammer spring, but that was one of the major pains in my butt when trying to reassemble the first gun. Saw this here: http://www.airsoftre...p?topic=98823.0 but haven't watched the videos yet. Just give it to me str8: Is there an easy way to do this where I'm guaranteed to succeed? I really don't want to boneyard another gun :) I'll admit it: I'm scared. Ok? There, I said it.

Possibly related to this issue is a problem I'm having where the gun intermittently fires bursts on semi-auto. This seems to be mag/release valve related as I'm pretty sure some mags don't do it, but I'm not 100% positive. Feels to me like something needs to be lubricated... I don't know though. I try to go light on the lube, just a little oil here and there. I do use some silicone grease on the nozzle/chamber/whatever that slides back and forth. Seems to work more smoothly when I use grease sparingly... Maybe that's the problem.

On a semi-related note that's not mentioned in the subject, I tried a firefly valve and noticed no difference at all. Went back to the stock alum valve, but did notice wear on the front of the firefly when I removed it. The anodized red had been scuffed off. Normal? Did I do something wrong? Should this upgrade make a significant diff and I didn't notice?

Finally, valve maintenance. Because I tend to look at my release valves first when it comes to FPS problems (I have quite a few and my mags are ALL inconsistent), how and how often do you normally service your valves? I usually remove mine, remove and lubricate the o-rings with heavy silicone oil, reinstall and don't tighten too much. I also silicone the valve on an empty mag, around the button (drop, work it in, etc. u know the drill). I have stock, Angel Custom CNC, and Hurricane release valves. None seem more reliable than the others.

Basically, I'll fire one mag and get 290 FPS on the first shot, last one usually 270-ish. Another mag will shoot 230 FPS ending at 220.

Upgrades include aforementioned valves (swapped around regularly), metal recoil spring/guide, Guarder mag catch (man that was a fun installation), and a Mad Bull TBB.

TIA

#2 gcw360

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 05:04 PM

Here is a video to get you started should you decide to risk a tear down/reassembly.  It's not that easy if you are not used to dealing with GBB guns but if you take your time it's doable.  I've done it a number of times myself changing triggers and trigger reset bars on my ATP.

See here:

Note: A harder hammer spring comes with a price.  While it can help to expel more gas and increase FPS, it can increase gas consumption also reducing the number of shots.  A harder hammer spring is sometimes needed in very warm environments to actuate the release valve. This is why some GBB pistols just won't do well in very hot environments,  The hammer doesn't strike the valve with enough force to overcome the back pressure in the mag and all you get is a "puff".  Add to that the blow back, while increased, may not be enough to overcome the hammer spring tension and reset the hammer allowing the next shot.  There is a balance to these guns and there is a trade off to get them to fire, constantly, in as many environments as possible.

Now, if for some reason you have a hammer spring that is too soft, the same thing will happen, poor gas release, in a more temperate environment.

Given the issues you are describing, I suggest that you send it to KWA for repair.

I hope this helps.

#3 jcleland

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 05:55 PM

Awesome, thank you for the feedback and video. Do you have any feedback or opinion on the Firefly valve? or release valve maintenance?

The Firefly valve thing is pretty well described in the original post, but the release valve thing... well. The best way to describe it is that sometimes I get a face-full of gas with some mags, then next two fire every round perfectly. The valves are new, I'm just wondering if there's something I can do to remedy the problem. Since it's mag-specific, I'm guessing that it's something like "the valve is staying open too long) or something of that nature. I've considered cleaning it (o-rings removed) in alcohol or with electrical contact cleaner, then lubricating and reinstalling. Something like that. The Hurricane valves actually come apart rather easily. Ideas?

Thanks again!

#4 gcw360

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 06:15 PM

View Postjcleland, on 18 September 2013 - 05:55 PM, said:

Awesome, thank you for the feedback and video. Do you have any feedback or opinion on the Firefly valve? or release valve maintenance?

The Firefly valve thing is pretty well described in the original post, but the release valve thing... well. The best way to describe it is that sometimes I get a face-full of gas with some mags, then next two fire every round perfectly. The valves are new, I'm just wondering if there's something I can do to remedy the problem. Since it's mag-specific, I'm guessing that it's something like "the valve is staying open too long) or something of that nature. I've considered cleaning it (o-rings removed) in alcohol or with electrical contact cleaner, then lubricating and reinstalling. Something like that. The Hurricane valves actually come apart rather easily. Ideas?

Thanks again!
Can't comment on the FF flute valve as I have not used it.  I assume it's a quality product and the wear you are seeing is most likely from the metal bar that is holding it in the cylinder.  As the gun cycles the flute value is moved so that it impacts the bar as it returns to it's resting position.

Regarding cylinder and release valve maintenance:
  • Use pure silicone oil on the cylinder rails and piston seal, not silicone geese. See here for general maintenance: http://www.kwausa.co...?showtopic=3157
  • Release valves typically will benefit from a drop of pure silicone oil put on them and gently worked in by opening and closing the valve (press in and out)
Hope this helps.

#5 jcleland

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 06:45 PM

Thanks! I don't think I described the flute valve thing well enough: The wear is on the pointed end, the edges if the flute.My guess is that it's smacking the spring or something, not sure. I mean, there's nothing else metal down there, right? Just concerning as nothing keeps this valve centered and spring impact seems inevitable, as does eventual replacement of the spring (as well as the valve, of course).

Going to check out the KWA link now. Appreciate all the help and awesome advice. -James

#6 gcw360

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 07:04 PM

View Postjcleland, on 18 September 2013 - 06:45 PM, said:

Thanks! I don't think I described the flute valve thing well enough: The wear is on the pointed end, the edges if the flute.My guess is that it's smacking the spring or something, not sure. I mean, there's nothing else metal down there, right? Just concerning as nothing keeps this valve centered and spring impact seems inevitable, as does eventual replacement of the spring (as well as the valve, of course).

Going to check out the KWA link now. Appreciate all the help and awesome advice. -James
My pleasure James. Yes, the wear is from the spring.




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