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G36C Full Auto Issue With New Spring


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#1 andrewg20

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 01:32 AM

Hey guys just got my KWA G36c awhile ago and its awesome, but now I am having a major issue. Everything was fine and dandy until I wanted to play at my local air house, come to find out their fps is 350. I have the major tech/owner/guru put a m100 spring in the gun and switch the connectors to deans.  Also note my battery is a 9.6v 1600NiMh. The gun shoots fine on semi,  but when switching to full auto, I get horrible fps drop and crap shoot with anything longer then a pull of the trigger. At this point I give the gun back to him as well  with the help of other people to look at and no one can figure out the problem.
  
I read about this issue being related to the G36c  on the forums about removing the sector clip or short stroking the piston to help resolve the issue. The gun now noticeably shoots faster with the rewire and the deans. Is this the issue with switching to a softer spring? Also can it be a loss of compression, but it shoots ropes in semi and is dead accurate?
  
I'm not sure to go ahead and tell him to perform both of those things as well as a mosfet to see if it will resolve this issue.

Again, this is with a 9.6v 1600NiMh battery....not a lipo.

Also to note with a low charged 9.6v or a 7.4v, the gun shoots fine for the most part.

If need be I can post a video of the issue.

#2 niko_gpsy

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 03:39 AM

Sounds like you are experiencing pre-engagement after the spring swap and upgrading to deans. Your problem will not be resolved by a MOSFET. Your piston is unable to complete a full stroke before the sector gear engages it thus your loss of fps and sporadic spread on full auto.
There are a few things you can do before trying something as drastic as short stroking. You can obviously opt for a lower voltage battery like a 7.4, reinstall heavier spring, remove the sector chip, install a slower motor or install a super light piston and piston head. But if you would like to maintain your current rof and lowered fps I would suggest a lighter piston and piston head.  This may be just enough to work. And you can keep your sector chip in since your problem stems from PE and not bb feed timing issue. Try it let us know how it turns out.

#3 Cerveza

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 05:13 AM

This seems odd to me. KWA's are supposed to be amongst the elite of airsoft guns yet simple modifications, like "looser springs" and batteries that are well within specs are causing these G36's to fail. And the posted solution? Replace piston, piston head, motor, spring. Replacing major internal components seems pretty excessive for a gun that is "engineered to outperform".

These are simple mods that are commonly done on other guns. Is there something about the KWA G36C's construction that causes these problems?

I run a stock KWA G36C and plan on a 6.01 TBB and a M130 spring. I'd like to run a LiPo also, but since no one will answer the mAh questions I'll probably just keep the 9.6/1600mAh battery for now. What issues can I look forward to when I upgrade?

#4 niko_gpsy

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 05:36 AM

It's simply that some KWA motors are faster than they were originally designed for. From experience particularly the short types.  This would be a case where some motors sometimes outperforms the system dynamics when things are changed.

#5 Cerveza

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 05:39 AM

Sounds like a break down in quality assurance.

Good to know there's a chance I'll be just fine. Sorry to those who are affected :(

#6 niko_gpsy

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 05:57 AM

View PostCerveza, on 06 April 2012 - 05:39 AM, said:

Sounds like a break down in quality assurance.

Not necessarily..................................  The G36C were originally designed to pull an M120 spring where timing and other factors like piston cycle and bb feed timing were engineered for that system.  And with the way ANY KWA guns were designed (in that it's been manufactured to handle higher loads with great ROF) when you "downgrade" in spring strength you may have to fine tune and adjust for those changes that were made because it may affect other aspects of the way the gun functions.  This is also true for just about any high end guns out in the market today.  And anyone who has ever worked on a high speed or high velocity AEG would agree that tuning and adjusting when an element in a system has changed is nothing new nor a flaw.

#7 Cerveza

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 06:06 AM

Good points. My comment was more based on the fact that some work, and some don't. That is an issue with quality assurance. Insuring each item is manufactured within stringent guidelines so that they perform nearly identical.

Yes there will be some exceptional performers. Some builds that are on the "best" side of each part combined to create a product that is just better. And of course, the other end of the spectrum, there will be lemons. Of course you will hear much more about the lemons, which is what these posts are about I suppose.

I'll just have to wait and see when I'm ready for modifications. I'm hoping for the performer and not the fruit.

#8 niko_gpsy

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 06:12 AM

Very good points! :)



#9 niko_gpsy

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 06:36 AM

View Postandrewg20, on 06 April 2012 - 01:32 AM, said:

Hey guys just got my KWA G36c awhile ago and its awesome, but now I am having a major issue. Everything was fine and dandy until I wanted to play at my local air house, come to find out their fps is 350. I have the major tech/owner/guru put a m100 spring in the gun and switch the connectors to deans.  Also note my battery is a 9.6v 1600NiMh. The gun shoots fine on semi,  but when switching to full auto, I get horrible fps drop and crap shoot with anything longer then a pull of the trigger. At this point I give the gun back to him as well  with the help of other people to look at and no one can figure out the problem.
  
I read about this issue being related to the G36c  on the forums about removing the sector clip or short stroking the piston to help resolve the issue. The gun now noticeably shoots faster with the rewire and the deans. Is this the issue with switching to a softer spring? Also can it be a loss of compression, but it shoots ropes in semi and is dead accurate?
  
I'm not sure to go ahead and tell him to perform both of those things as well as a mosfet to see if it will resolve this issue.

Again, this is with a 9.6v 1600NiMh battery....not a lipo.

Also to note with a low charged 9.6v or a 7.4v, the gun shoots fine for the most part.

If need be I can post a video of the issue.

On second thought try removing the sector chip first.

#10 andrewg20

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 03:24 PM

Ok ill have my Gun tech remove the sector chip first and ill let you guys know what happens. If that does not work, what I "lighter piston and piston head" would KWA suggest that I get. Also what is wrong with short stroking the piston along with removing the sector chip. Having to put more money into a $300 gun to shoot less fps just seems odd for some reason for me.

#11 niko_gpsy

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 07:22 AM

View Postandrewg20, on 06 April 2012 - 03:24 PM, said:

Ok ill have my Gun tech remove the sector chip first and ill let you guys know what happens. If that does not work, what I "lighter piston and piston head" would KWA suggest that I get. Also what is wrong with short stroking the piston along with removing the sector chip. Having to put more money into a $300 gun to shoot less fps just seems odd for some reason for me.
Any mods whether to make it shoot harder, faster, slower, and etc can cost money.  Anytime you change the original design of a gun you have to be prepared to fine tune it.  Sometimes you are lucky and it doesn't cost any money and other times it can end up being a money pit.  This is just the way any hobby is.
BTW how did it work out?




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