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Lm4 Performance Question With Propane?


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#1 Outlaw1995

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 10:19 AM

Disclaimer : Before I ask my question, I want to say that using propane in your KWA guns will shorten the lifespan of your gun. Using a dry gas like propane dries out your internals, puts extra wear on your components, and provides harder recoil feedback that can damage parts on your gun. KWA guns are built to be used with green gas. Using propane will most likely void your warranty.

Now with the liability issues out of the way, I've been brainstorming a lot. Reading posts on the forum regarding propane, I can come to the conclusion that propane gives harder recoil and puts extra wear on the gun. It also dries the gun out. Looking on youtube, I see lots of users putting propane (with silicon added) into their GBBRs (other brands of gbbrs, not KWA).

If one was to use propane in their KWA LM4 and wanted to reduce the amount of extra recoil, couldn't that person put a real steel buffer tube spring into their buffer tube and that would work just as well as using green gas with a regular buffer tube spring? I hear that the spring in the reel steel buffer tubes isn't that much stronger than the ones in the airsoft gbbr m4s. If you put that spring into your buffer tube, and added silicon oil lubricant to the gas, couldn't propane be just as effective as green gas?

I always prefer green gas but after buying KWA's gbbrs I'm going to be very short on budget.

Of course, this is just brainstorming and no person outside KWA could confirm this until release date.

Please add your thoughts to the thread.

#2 niko_gpsy

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 11:03 AM

There is really no way of knowing how much silicone oil you need to add. And green gas is not just straight propane with silicone oil added.  It has been buffered/based down with other ingredients (i have no idea with what....lol).
If you insist on using propane you can always volunteer to be our guinea pig and report back to us. LOL
But do you want to risk damaging your KWA because you didn't want to spend a few more bucks for the correct gas?

#3 Outlaw1995

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 11:16 AM

Nah, I love green gas. Even if propane was around, and green gas wasn't, I would keep my gas guns locked away. LOL I was considering putting this thread up because my friend would find any of the information helpful... (he loves propane) But if you think about it for a second, the buffer tube spring soaking up the recoil would be stronger, therefore using propane would give just about the same recoil as using green gas on a normal buffer tube spring... I will report back to the thread when the GBBRs hit the market- I'm gonna insist my friend do it to his lm4. (once we get them, that is!)

#4 nosaj

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 02:00 PM

I'm most likely going to be using propane.  Where I live, green gas is very hard to get in Ohio.  The sport isn't as prominent here as it is in other states.  

But, I takedown my kwa mp7 often and oil it up and inspect it.

I'll offer to guinea pig on this :7D

#5 jaybirdritenour2

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 06:54 PM

I will be the first to try yellow gas. No need to warn me I am fully aware of the gas and GBB Airsoft guns.

#6 Outlaw1995

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 07:55 PM

View Postjaybirdritenour2, on 22 December 2011 - 06:54 PM, said:

I will be the first to try yellow gas. No need to warn me I am fully aware of the gas and GBB Airsoft guns.
What is yellow gas? Never in my 6 years of airsoft have I heard of yellow gas.

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 02:10 PM

I don't want to imagine what is Yellow Gas. :rolf2:

#8 gcw360

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 02:28 PM

:shocked:

#9 niko_gpsy

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 02:33 PM

View Postallizard, on 23 December 2011 - 02:10 PM, said:

I don't want to imagine what is Yellow Gas. :rolf2:
I have some of that right now!   :blinded:

#10 gcw360

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 02:40 PM

Nyko - I'm sure your "yellow" gas would foul your gun.

#11 jaybirdritenour2

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 03:01 PM

There is green , yellow, and red gas and of course co2. Green gas is Propane with additives, yellow gas is Propylene/ Map gas with additives, and red gas is R22 Freon with additives.  

And yes the Propylene is a very dirty gas but the kick is nice and a lot less cool down effect. But I wont recommend use of the gas unless you are ready to fix the gun if it breaks. But we will see how well it holds up to the gas.

Edited by jaybirdritenour2, 23 December 2011 - 03:03 PM.


#12 gcw360

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 03:11 PM

MAPP gas is a trademarked name belonging to Linde Group, previously to Dow, for a fuel gas based on a stabilized mixture of methylacetylene (propyne) and propadiene. The name comes from the original chemical composition: methylacetylene-propadiene propane. MAPP gas is also widely used as a generic name for UN 1060 stabilised methylacetylene-propadiene (unstabilised methylacetylene-propadiene is known as MAPD). MAPP gas is widely regarded as a safer and easier-to-use substitute for acetylene. In the spring of 2008, true MAPP gas production ended when production was discontinued at the only plant making it. Current products labeled ""MAPP" are in fact MAPP substitutes. These versions are stabilized liquefied petroleum gas (LPG) with high levels of propylene.

The composition of the supplied gas has varied widely, with the gases as supplied by different repackagers/resellers at any one time varying, as well as the general composition varying over time, but a typical composition for an early Dow gas might be: methylacetylene (propyne) 48%, propadiene 23%, propane 27%. For a later Dow/Petromont gas propyne 30%, propadiene 14%, propylene 43%, propane 7%, C4H10 (isobutane, butane) 6% might be more typical.

Man I love Wikipedia!!!

#13 jaybirdritenour2

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 03:45 PM

Yes it is just a bit stronger than Propane. But cool down seem a lot less in my experience.

Down side is it is a $10.00 bottle verse the $3.00 a bottle price for propane.

Edited by jaybirdritenour2, 23 December 2011 - 03:49 PM.


#14 mcnabb100

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 06:38 PM

View PostOutlaw1995, on 22 December 2011 - 10:19 AM, said:

Disclaimer : Before I ask my question, I want to say that using propane in your KWA guns will shorten the lifespan of your gun. Using a dry gas like propane dries out your internals, puts extra wear on your components, and provides harder recoil feedback that can damage parts on your gun. KWA guns are built to be used with green gas. Using propane will most likely void your warranty.

Now with the liability issues out of the way, I've been brainstorming a lot. Reading posts on the forum regarding propane, I can come to the conclusion that propane gives harder recoil and puts extra wear on the gun. It also dries the gun out. Looking on youtube, I see lots of users putting propane (with silicon added) into their GBBRs (other brands of gbbrs, not KWA).

If one was to use propane in their KWA LM4 and wanted to reduce the amount of extra recoil, couldn't that person put a real steel buffer tube spring into their buffer tube and that would work just as well as using green gas with a regular buffer tube spring? I hear that the spring in the reel steel buffer tubes isn't that much stronger than the ones in the airsoft gbbr m4s. If you put that spring into your buffer tube, and added silicon oil lubricant to the gas, couldn't propane be just as effective as green gas?

I always prefer green gas but after buying KWA's gbbrs I'm going to be very short on budget.

Of course, this is just brainstorming and no person outside KWA could confirm this until release date.

Please add your thoughts to the thread.

Changing the buffer spring would not reduce the recoil, but I doubt propane would be enough to cycle a real steel buffer anyways.

#15 Outlaw1995

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 07:39 PM

View Postmcnabb100, on 23 December 2011 - 06:38 PM, said:


Changing the buffer spring would not reduce the recoil, but I doubt propane would be enough to cycle a real steel buffer anyways.
Changing the buffer spring will reduce recoil by soaking the bolt movement up because there's more tension. The bolt will fly back at the same power it has always been doing, but the extra tension would soak some recoil up. Because using propane adds more kick to the recoil, I am predicting by using a real steel buffer tube spring, will handle the extra recoil and make it so the extra kick doesn't damage the internals.

#16 niko_gpsy

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Posted 24 December 2011 - 06:52 AM

View PostOutlaw1995, on 23 December 2011 - 07:39 PM, said:

Changing the buffer spring will reduce recoil by soaking the bolt movement up because there's more tension. The bolt will fly back at the same power it has always been doing, but the extra tension would soak some recoil up. Because using propane adds more kick to the recoil, I am predicting by using a real steel buffer tube spring, will handle the extra recoil and make it so the extra kick doesn't damage the internals.
But how about the increased force of the bolt slamming forward?  Have you considered that? ;)

#17 Outlaw1995

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Posted 24 December 2011 - 09:10 AM

View Postniko_gpsy, on 24 December 2011 - 06:52 AM, said:

But how about the increased force of the bolt slamming forward?  Have you considered that? ;)
Good point. Didn't think about that. And that would be the crucial part of preserving the internals-making sure the bolt doesn't slam forward harder than it should. Thanks for the wake up call! lol

#18 niko_gpsy

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Posted 24 December 2011 - 09:13 AM

View PostOutlaw1995, on 24 December 2011 - 09:10 AM, said:

Good point. Didn't think about that. And that would be the crucial part of preserving the internals-making sure the bolt doesn't slam forward harder than it should. Thanks for the wake up call! lol
Oh, No Luke.  I wasn't implying that you were wrong.  I was asking if you considered my point. LMAO
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#19 Outlaw1995

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Posted 24 December 2011 - 02:03 PM

View Postniko_gpsy, on 24 December 2011 - 09:13 AM, said:

Oh, No Luke.  I wasn't implying that you were wrong.  I was asking if you considered my point. LMAO
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Nah, I never considered it. All considerations are welcome. When the LM4 comes out, I'm definitely making my friend try it though... hehehe

#20 aaps59

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 08:10 AM

View PostOutlaw1995, on 22 December 2011 - 11:16 AM, said:

Nah, I love green gas. Even if propane was around, and green gas wasn't, I would keep my gas guns locked away. LOL I was considering putting this thread up because my friend would find any of the information helpful... (he loves propane) But if you think about it for a second, the buffer tube spring soaking up the recoil would be stronger, therefore using propane would give just about the same recoil as using green gas on a normal buffer tube spring... I will report back to the thread when the GBBRs hit the market- I'm gonna insist my friend do it to his lm4. (once we get them, that is!)

hes not getting one




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