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Green Gas And Propane?


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#1 Nitemare

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 02:03 PM

I'm still a bit skeptical about green gas and propane being different as AI tested multiple GG brands alongside propane and found no differences, but anyway...

Is it at all a feasible idea to mix propane and green gas? For example, say I filled a mag for about 10-20 seconds with green gas, then the rest with propane?

If that's a poor idea, would it be helpful to run a few mags at the start of a day with green gas, then the rest with propane? I can't justify dumping 3-5x more money into green gas because it is not going to last anywhere near as long if I only use that.

#2 Jatodude

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 02:50 PM

Solution: Buy green gas for the first 45 days.  Then use propane. Just ad the silicon to your propane, and clean the gun thoroughly.

#3 aaps59

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 04:20 AM

There are chemicals added to propane that will break down many components of your gun, whether you lubricate it properly or not. That is a key reason to why its not recommended in KWA products. I highly recommend you use green gas in the LM4. But if you do decide to go propane, keep us updated incase anything breaks. Im interested to see how propane tolerant the LM4 is...

#4 BENboBEN

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 05:07 AM

All I can use is propane so I will update on how it works this Friday.

#5 niko_gpsy

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 07:56 AM

View PostBENboBEN, on 16 May 2012 - 05:07 AM, said:

All I can use is propane so I will update on how it works this Friday.
The real question is how long will your gun last before it starts to break parts.  Using propane a few times may not cause any mechanical issues (performance may suffer.......IDK) but over time you may start to notice excessive wear on parts.  Although I personally do not like to use propane I would be interested as well.  Please keep us posted.

#6 Raptor72

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 09:21 AM

See below link.  They claim green gas is propane.

http://www.airsoft-i...een-gas-propane

Edited by Raptor72, 16 May 2012 - 09:21 AM.


#7 Guest_Allizard_*

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 10:06 AM

Alright I'm going to answer this and pin this topic.  Beware that Information could still changed as we learned more.

In spite of AI green gas lab test.  We can't agree the Test gives a conclusive result.

Here in our service center we have serviced thousands of gas pistols through out the years.  We kept records on each guns and we generate reports monthly.  There is a strong evidence that SOME propane tanks are causing problem in our guns.  Notice I use the word "SOME" that is because we also have seen guns that use propane for period time and show no evidence of internal damage.  

As we understand Propane itself is highly flammable and odorless.  The stinky smell is the additive injected into the tank so in case of a leak we'll know where to find it and not lighting a cigarett at the same time.  :rolleyes:

The problem.... that we are speculating could be coming from various bottling facility themselves.  We do know  propane tanks are not bottled the same way due to their regional environment.  ie. Different elevation etc etc....  the additive could also be different chemical mixture form place to place.  These additive may or may not have corrosive properties and would damage rubber seals.  We aren't sure but the evidence is pointing there IS a problem somewhere with the tank.  And we can't tell which brand of bottle or from which regions.  

Obviously the cost difference is very wide between Green gas vs. Propane and the lure of saving $$ is very tempting.  However for manufacture warranty sake, we can't risk stating that our gun can use Propane until we have complete confidence it's safe to use.  Therefore, we ask if you want your gun to be covered under warranty,  please avoid using Propane for the duration within the warranty period.  After that, it's up to you to decide what to use.

Oh... and one more thing....

AI is located in Canada.  I haven't been able to find out the lab is located in US or Located in Canada nor who supply the propane tank for comparison.  Regulation is also different between two countries therefore... I have to say results may vary.

#8 Raptor72

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 10:10 AM

Thank you very much for clarity on this topic.  May I ask what seems to be problem areas on the guns that are sensitive to propane.  What are the typical failures you are seeing?  

Thanks again for the info!

Edited by Raptor72, 16 May 2012 - 10:12 AM.


#9 Outlaw1995

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 11:59 AM

A problem area while using propane would be the hop up bucking. If you over lubricate your propane, you risk that silicon oil getting onto the hop up bucking, increasing the chance of causing your bucking to swell- leading to jams and bbs not firing.

#10 BENboBEN

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 12:09 PM

View Postniko_gpsy, on 16 May 2012 - 07:56 AM, said:


The real question is how long will your gun last before it starts to break parts.  Using propane a few times may not cause any mechanical issues (performance may suffer.......IDK) but over time you may start to notice excessive wear on parts.  Although I personally do not like to use propane I would be interested as well.  Please keep us posted.
You see, I have fed EVERY single Kwa gbb of mine with propane only. The only GG was the stuff that Airsoft GI left in my mag once. I have had no failures that I can relate to propane. I also can't justify paying an extra $10 for a can of gas when it will cost $3 to fix a part that may break. Especially considering I go through a can once every other week. If propane were breaking my gun once every other week I would switch to GG. I can respect Kwa's and everyone else's opinions on propane (and I don't want to start another propane vs. GG war), but it doesn't make any sense to me to get propane. It also bugs me when people yell at me for using propane when I have not had ONE issue with propane. I am not saying you were yelling at me and I have no hard feelings, this is just my opinion and I have to get it out there.

#11 BENboBEN

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 12:14 PM

View PostOutlaw1995, on 16 May 2012 - 11:59 AM, said:

A problem area while using propane would be the hop up bucking. If you over lubricate your propane, you risk that silicon oil getting onto the hop up bucking, increasing the chance of causing your bucking to swell- leading to jams and bbs not firing.
Not if you use thicker pure silicon like GHK silicon lube. That stuff has worked wonders in my guns. I do agree with you that people over lube the guns though.

#12 niko_gpsy

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 12:54 PM

View PostBENboBEN, on 16 May 2012 - 12:09 PM, said:

You see, I have fed EVERY single Kwa gbb of mine with propane only. The only GG was the stuff that Airsoft GI left in my mag once. I have had no failures that I can relate to propane. I also can't justify paying an extra $10 for a can of gas when it will cost $3 to fix a part that may break. Especially considering I go through a can once every other week. If propane were breaking my gun once every other week I would switch to GG. I can respect Kwa's and everyone else's opinions on propane (and I don't want to start another propane vs. GG war), but it doesn't make any sense to me to get propane. It also bugs me when people yell at me for using propane when I have not had ONE issue with propane. I am not saying you were yelling at me and I have no hard feelings, this is just my opinion and I have to get it out there.

My point is since everyone's results may vary it can sound a bit irresponsible to say that everyone's results will be like yours.   And for me to say that propane will automatically break your guns can sound the same way too.  I am just trying to point out that exercising a little caution will be a good thing.

#13 BENboBEN

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 01:31 PM

View Postniko_gpsy, on 16 May 2012 - 12:54 PM, said:


My point is since everyone's results may vary it can sound a bit irresponsible to say that everyone's results will be like yours.   And for me to say that propane will automatically break your guns can sound the same way too.  I am just trying to point out that exercising a little caution will be a good thing.
Point taken.

#14 sniperelite7

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 01:47 PM

I use propane in my used kmp9, the only issue so far is the return springs which are a problem in that model, and I didn't go about taking the proper precautions on it. Most everyone I know uses propane, whole communities of airsofters use propane in their gbbs. Here, a manufacturer's forum is the only place i;ve encountered propane negative attitudes.

I recall a post here saying only to use kwa brand green gas, because even other green gas brands may not be "up to spec". The point is this. Green gas, kwagas is expensive. If you can trust yourself to properly lubricate your gun. Use propane. I never did by into the fear mongering.

#15 jaybirdritenour2

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 02:57 PM

I work in the Propane business. What is added to Propane is  Ethyl Mercaptan. Some aerosol cans that use Propane to power them might have a little different additives. But a Coleman Propane can has just propane and Ethyl Mercaptan. Now no exact amount of Ethyl Mercaptan is in Propane. There is a certain amount there has to be at least by volume but every tank has a different amount. But there should be absolutely no pressure difference at all.

But what I do believe is some Green Gases mix other gasses in like Butane or 134a gas, ect in with the Propane.

Edited by jaybirdritenour2, 16 May 2012 - 03:03 PM.


#16 R_King91303

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 03:23 PM

View Postjaybirdritenour2, on 16 May 2012 - 02:57 PM, said:

I work in the Propane business. What is added to Propane is  Ethyl Mercaptan. Some aerosol cans that use Propane to power them might have a little different additives. But a Coleman Propane can has just propane and Ethyl Mercaptan. Now no exact amount of Ethyl Mercaptan is in Propane. There is a certain amount there has to be at least by volume but every tank has a different amount. But there should be absolutely no pressure difference at all.

But what I do believe is some Green Gases mix other gasses in like Butane or 134a gas, ect in with the Propane.

Is Ethyl Mercaptan a petro product?


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#17 Jatodude

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 04:00 PM

Now that we know what's in there for sure, all we need is a full blown chemist that knows or can figure it how it reacts to the materials found in the LM4.

#18 Nitemare

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 05:04 PM

View PostJatodude, on 16 May 2012 - 04:00 PM, said:

Now that we know what's in there for sure, all we need is a full blown chemist that knows or can figure it how it reacts to the materials found in the LM4.

Apart from the propane, apparently the ethyl mercaptan is the odor additive. What else it might or might not do, I have no idea.

#19 jaybirdritenour2

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 05:16 PM

View PostNitemare, on 16 May 2012 - 05:04 PM, said:


Apart from the propane, apparently the ethyl mercaptan is the odor additive. What else it might or might not do, I have no idea.

That is my point. I don't know if it is bad for orings but it doesn't cause any other problems. And the propane in a green gas can already has the additive in it. So I don't see what the problem is with it.

#20 Jatodude

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 05:40 PM

View PostNitemare, on 16 May 2012 - 05:04 PM, said:


Apart from the propane, apparently the ethyl mercaptan is the odor additive. What else it might or might not do, I have no idea.

I'm not sure what about my post was indicative of me not realizing that.
Anyways, it was crowned "the smelliest substance in the world".  The human nose can detect one particle among 2.8 billion particles of air.  Hence the smell lol.
And the only thing I could find in it's description of it being somewhat corrosive was it binding with some transition metals.
I know some fundamental chemistry, and could probably make a guess at what kind of reaction takes place between the propane and the LM4 internals, such as the metal alloys and polymers if I had the chemical formulas for them. But a more advanced chemist could probably tell if there will be any such reactions between the two.  It could also be a reaction with the outside enviroment

Alternatively it could be a more physical problem rather than a chemical one.  Such as the Ethyl Mercaptan causing tolerance problems with build up.

This sort of practical application of chemistry is a bit out of my league though lol.

Edited by Jatodude, 16 May 2012 - 05:50 PM.





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