Jump to content


Increasing accuracy and tightening group - KWA CQR Mod 2

KWA CQR MOD 2

  • Please log in to reply
15 replies to this topic

#1 ffbear

ffbear

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 8 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Country:

Posted 15 November 2012 - 03:25 PM

Hello,

I apologize if this has already been asked a million times.

I recently bought a KWA CQR Mod 2, all the internals are stock with the exception of a Madbull tightbore barrel. I just bought an Aimpoint and attempted to zero the gun in my backyard. At 50' I'm shooting a 5"-10" group very inconsistently on the target. I also watched the BB's when shooting over my fence and sometimes they go straight consistently 1-2 times, and then other times they'll shoot out sideways. What could I start to check/upgrade to tighten my group up? I'm fairly new but before I got into the sport I borrowed my friend's TM M4 with a red dot and that could shoot lemons hanging in the backyard every time - it had a longer barrel but from my understanding that only helps raise the FPS and maybe some slight accuracy?

I'm using Classic Army .25s too.

Thanks for any help and advice!

Attached Files

  • Attached File  KWA.jpg   77K   28 downloads


#2 xKingSizex

xKingSizex

    Customer Service Manager

  • Administrators
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,820 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Long Beach, CA
  • Interests:Umm, airsoft...
  • Country:

Posted 15 November 2012 - 03:44 PM

Do you have a longer inner barrel inside that barrel extension? Have you tried your tests without the barrel extension on it? Have you tried any other brand of bb's?

#3 aaps59

aaps59

    Guru

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,149 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New York City
  • Interests:Airsoft, photography, cars, computers.
  • Country:

Posted 15 November 2012 - 07:37 PM

DId you buy the gun with the Madbull barrel installed?

#4 ffbear

ffbear

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 8 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Country:

Posted 15 November 2012 - 09:17 PM

View PostxKingSizex, on 15 November 2012 - 03:44 PM, said:

Do you have a longer inner barrel inside that barrel extension? Have you tried your tests without the barrel extension on it? Have you tried any other brand of bb's?

It extends about an inch past the outer barrel and it slightly wobbles (normal to float?) I have not tested without the extension..will do first thing tomorrow morning and the CA .25s are the only ones I've tried. Also AAPS, I bought the CQR with the madbull barrel already installed.
Posted Image

#5 niko_gpsy

niko_gpsy

    What's a Warranty?

  • Super Moderator
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 5,878 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Atlanta, GA
  • Interests:Keeping those damn squirrels from putting their filthy little paws on my peaches in my backyard. Oh, Yes. It's not just a hobby, its a passion!!
  • Country:

Posted 16 November 2012 - 07:48 AM

You may want to try thoroughly cleaning the bucking and barrel.  Even just a little bit of grease or oil inside the bucking can have an adverse affect on your accuracy and range.
Also there have been some mixed feeling with Madbull barrels in a KWA so you may want to test with a KWA stock barrel as well if you  have it.
And as kingsize has mentioned, try testing without the barrel extension.  I have seen some extensions that are just hollow tubes lower FPS and accuracy.

#6 ffbear

ffbear

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 8 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Country:

Posted 16 November 2012 - 10:29 PM

View Postniko_gpsy, on 16 November 2012 - 07:48 AM, said:

You may want to try thoroughly cleaning the bucking and barrel.  Even just a little bit of grease or oil inside the bucking can have an adverse affect on your accuracy and range.
Also there have been some mixed feeling with Madbull barrels in a KWA so you may want to test with a KWA stock barrel as well if you  have it.
And as kingsize has mentioned, try testing without the barrel extension.  I have seen some extensions that are just hollow tubes lower FPS and accuracy.

Thanks for the help so far! I will take it apart and clean soon. Also, here is my groups at a short distance..the mock [barrel extension] did make a big difference but why is that?

Posted Image

#7 rigma_one

rigma_one

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 22 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:NYC
  • Country:

Posted 17 November 2012 - 12:09 AM

I'm not a scientist or expert, but I'll try to give my two cents on what I [think I] know and explain it as clearly as possible.

When you shoot a bb through your barrel, you're not only pushing that bb the length of the inner barrel, you're also pushing all of the standing air inside that barrel and any air in it's path - out of the way.  That air rushing out of the barrel creates turbulence that the bb must travel through.  Turbulence as we can imagine decreases accuracy.

When you take the mock supressor off, the air in front of the inner barrel can be dispersed and displaced easily.  With your mock supressor on, even more air is sitting in front of the bb that it must travel through.  Additionally, this air is trapped in a tight space inside the suppressor creating worse turbulence.

Here's a wiki article on the Magnus effect, which if you read the article, adversely affects the trajectories of spinning balls in sports.  Imagine the diagram in the article happening inside the mock supressor versus in open air.
http://en.wikipedia....i/Magnus_effect

Good luck, and let us know if you decide to get a longer inner barrel, remove the mock suppressor, of if I was completely off on this one!

Regards,
rig

Edited by rigma_one, 17 November 2012 - 12:12 AM.


#8 ffbear

ffbear

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 8 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Country:

Posted 17 November 2012 - 12:37 AM

View Postrigma_one, on 17 November 2012 - 12:09 AM, said:

I'm not a scientist or expert, but I'll try to give my two cents on what I [think I] know and explain it as clearly as possible.

When you shoot a bb through your barrel, you're not only pushing that bb the length of the inner barrel, you're also pushing all of the standing air inside that barrel and any air in it's path - out of the way.  That air rushing out of the barrel creates turbulence that the bb must travel through.  Turbulence as we can imagine decreases accuracy.

When you take the mock supressor off, the air in front of the inner barrel can be dispersed and displaced easily.  With your mock supressor on, even more air is sitting in front of the bb that it must travel through.  Additionally, this air is trapped in a tight space inside the suppressor creating worse turbulence.

Here's a wiki article on the Magnus effect, which if you read the article, adversely affects the trajectories of spinning balls in sports.  Imagine the diagram in the article happening inside the mock supressor versus in open air.
http://en.wikipedia....i/Magnus_effect

Good luck, and let us know if you decide to get a longer inner barrel, remove the mock suppressor, of if I was completely off on this one!

Regards,
rig

Very informative thank you! If I get a longer tightbore barrel, Would it be worth it to tape/stabilize the barrel rather than it float inside the [barrel extension]? Or, is it recommended to buy a long barrel, cut, and evenly sand the end with a dremel so it sits nearly flush with the end of any barrel extension? I have several things to try next chance I get...thanks again for all the info so far.

Also I looked up the specs on the side of the mock [barrel extension] and its this exact one:
http://www.evike.com...oducts_id=37874 - i'm assuming because its cosmetic that even though its for a 9mm..it wouldn't change performance on the M4?

Edited by ffbear, 17 November 2012 - 01:18 AM.


#9 vanevery

vanevery

    Specialist

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 981 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Country:

Posted 17 November 2012 - 04:19 AM

rigma_one was on the money.

Just keep in mind that not all suppressors are the same.
Not all are hollow.
Not all hollow suppressors interfere with accuracy.
I would advise against a longer suppressor.
This MadBull Suppressor has what I would describe as a barrel extension in it.
http://www.airsoftgi...roducts_id=1627
So it compliments the inner barrel.

Also use O-rings on your inner barrel that is inside a hollow mock suppressor.
I use #47 O-rings.
Like this: The ones on the inner barrel.
Posted Image

#10 Chuck S

Chuck S

    Guru

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,288 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cleveland, Ohio
  • Country:

Posted 17 November 2012 - 04:46 AM

The "suppressor" is a non-functional albeit kool-looking part.  Don't worry, I understand kool!   But they do nothing to improve the gun and the extra length can get in the way.  In this case your shot groups clearly indicate it's interfering somehow with the accuracy.   I think you need a longer inner barrel.

I've seen nice "suppressed" guns out there with full-length inner barrels right to the tip of the suppressor.  The suppressor is permanent and there's a nice, long, probably very accurate inner barrel hiding inside.

The ease of sliding an AEG inner barrel out still allows for you to remove the suppressor and slide a shorter barrel in there.  But you need two inner barrels for this to work well.

-- Chuck

#11 ffbear

ffbear

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 8 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Country:

Posted 17 November 2012 - 02:08 PM

Hey guys,

I went to AEX here in CA and bought a longer barrel with o-rings..guys were very nice and realized the problem asap which was the flimsy Madbull barrel with white streaks that could be seen on the inside diameter. Now its shooting straight and consistently - much relief as I thought worst case scenario there's something wrong internally...

Thank you all for the advice and warm welcome on the KWA forums.
Posted Image

#12 vanevery

vanevery

    Specialist

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 981 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Country:

Posted 17 November 2012 - 02:42 PM

Well I am glad your problem has been solved and that your gun is performing properly.
What inner barrel are you using in the picture?

#13 ffbear

ffbear

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 8 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Country:

Posted 17 November 2012 - 06:07 PM

View Postvanevery, on 17 November 2012 - 02:42 PM, said:

Well I am glad your problem has been solved and that your gun is performing properly.
What inner barrel are you using in the picture?

It's an Action Army, bronze barrel that's been coated..$27.99. I looked at the box to try and find a length but none - it falls short about 1"-1.5" from the end of the [barrel extension] and its a 6.01.

Edited by ffbear, 17 November 2012 - 11:07 PM.


#14 gcw360

gcw360

    Supreme Guru

  • Super Moderator
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 11,561 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New Jersey
  • Interests:Airsoft (Especially repair and customizing), Fly Fishing, Fossils (Especially Dino), Snakes, Photography
  • Country:

Posted 17 November 2012 - 06:42 PM

View Postffbear, on 15 November 2012 - 09:17 PM, said:

It extends about an inch past the outer barrel and it slightly wobbles (normal to float?) I have not tested without the extension..will do first thing tomorrow morning and the CA .25s are the only ones I've tried. Also AAPS, I bought the CQR with the madbull barrel already installed.
Posted Image
Forgive me if I missed this, but where did you get (and what type/brand) that piece of outer barrel to extend the stock MOD2 outter barrel?

#15 ffbear

ffbear

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 8 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Country:

Posted 17 November 2012 - 11:16 PM

View Postgcw360, on 17 November 2012 - 06:42 PM, said:

Forgive me if I missed this, but where did you get (and what type/brand) that piece of outer barrel to extend the stock MOD2 outter barrel?

I looked for you and tried unscrewing it with my hand (if it evens comes off that way), its on there pretty good I'd probably need a pipe clamp. No brand on the outside.. the guy at AEX today asked the same thing - said something about the nice fit it had and usually they aren't that flush? I bought the gun off craigslist with the Magpul parts, outer barrel extension, and mock s. already on.

#16 gcw360

gcw360

    Supreme Guru

  • Super Moderator
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 11,561 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New Jersey
  • Interests:Airsoft (Especially repair and customizing), Fly Fishing, Fossils (Especially Dino), Snakes, Photography
  • Country:

Posted 18 November 2012 - 06:47 AM

View Postffbear, on 17 November 2012 - 11:16 PM, said:

I looked for you and tried unscrewing it with my hand (if it evens comes off that way), its on there pretty good I'd probably need a pipe clamp. No brand on the outside.. the guy at AEX today asked the same thing - said something about the nice fit it had and usually they aren't that flush? I bought the gun off craigslist with the Magpul parts, outer barrel extension, and mock s. already on.
Thanks for trying.





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: KWA CQR MOD 2

1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users