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Bolt Sticking Past End Of Upper Reciever


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#1 R_King91303

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 08:17 PM

So it looks like my bolt is extending about 1/8" longer then it should beyond the upper receiver. As result it is starting to push into the buffer tube,which prevents the operator from accessing the BCG unless they push both the front and rear pins. Additionally, this misalignment appears to have happened recently as wearing patterns near the charging handle would seem to indicate that the BCG used to be flush with the rear of the upper. Finally,I cannot confirm it, but I suspect the misalignment might be effecting gas efficiency between the piston and mag.  

Pics:

Posted Image BCG pushed in as far as possible, but still sticking out 1/8"

Posted Image Wearing pattern, length is 1/8" from where the charging handle arm rested started and where it now rests

Posted Image Inside the upper, charging handle stopper wall, with ramp (shiny looking object)

Posted Image Hard to see in the pic, but length from the stopper wall to the start of the ramp is about 1/8"

Posted Image Ramp cut out in charging handle is for a 1/4" ramp

Posted Image Bolt gap visible through the dust cover 1/8"

Posted Image Piston is seated correctly.

Thoughts?


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#2 BENboBEN

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 07:54 AM

This same thing was happening to me. I don't know if your in the same situation but check around the outside of the hop up adjustment wheel. I had a bb that got destroyed and lodged in there.

#3 R_King91303

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 08:22 AM

View PostBENboBEN, on 30 May 2012 - 07:54 AM, said:

This same thing was happening to me. I don't know if your in the same situation but check around the outside of the hop up adjustment wheel. I had a bb that got destroyed and lodged in there.

The piston is sitting flush within the bolt. To me, it seems like one of the parts (charging handle or bolt) is too long, or the stopper wall in the charging handle track (the third pic) in the upper receiver is engaging the the charging handle about a 1/8" sooner then it should. If the wall is supposed to swing up/down, then it could be possible a BB got into it and is causing the pre-engagement issue with the charging handle....


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Edited by R_King91303, 30 May 2012 - 08:23 AM.


#4 Guest_Allizard_*

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 08:33 AM

Guys,,,, you probably have some debris still inside the receiver / feed ramp area hence the bolt won't travel fully forward.  Examine closely again.

#5 BoobieM4H

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 08:38 AM

There is something definitley blockiing the bcg from fully seating..like previous comment check around hop up adjustment. Also does your nozzle spring back when pulled out? If it doesn't then your return spring is broken and the nozzle is not going all the way back into the bolt.

#6 R_King91303

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 08:40 AM

View PostAllizard, on 30 May 2012 - 08:33 AM, said:

Guys,,,, you probably have some debris still inside the receiver / feed ramp area hence the bolt won't travel fully forward.  Examine closely again.

Posted Image
The charging handle pushed as far into the upper, but it engaging the wall too soon. The top of the hop up chamber would be above the wall / ledge from this angle. If the feeding ramp is jammed, then it would mean it is pushing the chamber up into the charging handle track??


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Edited by R_King91303, 30 May 2012 - 08:43 AM.


#7 Raptor72

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 08:46 AM

I dont think you understand what everyone is saying(I might be wrong).  I did have a jam and it did crush a piece of bb around the hop up adjustment wheel.  trust me, bbs can jump out of alignment and end up anywhere.  I also bet this is the problem.  You need to be looking not at the bolt or upper receiver, but rather the hop up adjust ment ring and its surounding area.

There is no way the bolt or charging handle are too long.

Edited by Raptor72, 30 May 2012 - 08:47 AM.


#8 R_King91303

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 09:03 AM

View PostRaptor72, on 30 May 2012 - 08:46 AM, said:

I dont think you understand what everyone is saying(I might be wrong).  I did have a jam and it did crush a piece of bb around the hop up adjustment wheel.  trust me, bbs can jump out of alignment and end up anywhere.  I also bet this is the problem.  You need to be looking not at the bolt or upper receiver, but rather the hop up adjust ment ring and its surounding area.

There is no way the bolt or charging handle are too long.

I'll double check when I get home. That's why I posted this, because I am extremely confused as to what is going on; from what I was seeing there were no visible signs of jamming.


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#9 Raptor72

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 09:07 AM

No worries.  Just trying to get you up and shooting again!

#10 R_King91303

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 10:41 AM

View PostRaptor72, on 30 May 2012 - 09:07 AM, said:

No worries.  Just trying to get you up and shooting again!

Lol, the gun still shoots, another reason why I am at a loss as to what is going on ::crazy::

The problem (whatever it is) did not become noticeable until I tried to seperate the receivers so I could clean / inspect them after a weekend of use.


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#11 greatwatermelon

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 10:49 AM

Responding your previous posts in the other thread.... It takes a lot lot lot more to elongate or compress metal...

Give it a good clean, make sure the hop up area, and the bolt carrier group is cleaned well... Like Allizard said, there's probably some debris in your bolt carrier group or loading ramp/hop up wheel area.

#12 R_King91303

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 11:27 AM

View Postgreatwatermelon, on 30 May 2012 - 10:49 AM, said:

Responding your previous posts in the other thread.... It takes a lot lot lot more to elongate or compress metal...

Give it a good clean, make sure the hop up area, and the bolt carrier group is cleaned well... Like Allizard said, there's probably some debris in your bolt carrier group or loading ramp.

I hear ya, about the amount of stress to it takes to dissform metal. That's why I thought the thing in the red box was the most probable cause of the problem; it appears to be blocking the charging handle from locking into place. The item in the red star could possibly be BB fragment, however due to it's angle and small size, it's something I couldn't see until I snapped this pic, dunno if I will be able to access it to clear it out...Posted Image





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#13 greatwatermelon

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 11:40 AM

There are many ways to deform metal. When it comes to elongation and compression, it would be one of the last things on the list.

Now if metal is being bent, sheared (cut into) or both is a different story.

Allizard responded in Outlaw's LM4 thread... perhaps this will help you center down to the problem.


View PostAllizard, on 30 May 2012 - 11:04 AM, said:

This is what I notice so far and could be the cause for the problem.

The LM4 Magazine is design to hold 40 rounds.  However, on loading the mag with speed loader, it can load 41 rounds into the mag.  
If you do that, two things can happen.

1. If the bolt is close, the magazine have no clearance for the feed ram and magazine will not lock in place.  Forcing it to lock can damage the feed lip and feed ram.  

2. If the bolt is open, the magazine will lock but when you release the bolt, the weight of the steel bolt with a steel feed ram tip will damage the BB.  Thus the BB can be cracked or deformed when entering the hop-up chamber.  This will cause further jamming and the debris can damage other internal parts.  

So... be careful not to overload the mag.  After loading the mag, check if there is at least 3mm clearance.  I'll see if I can provide some pictures later today.

On another note, you still are on the 45 day warranty. Have you submitted a ticket to the help desk to possibly have your LM4 looked at?

#14 R_King91303

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 11:47 AM

Yea I submitted a ticket & got a response, once I get home, I'll have to follow up on the requested info :)


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#15 R_King91303

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 01:38 PM

View Postgreatwatermelon, on 30 May 2012 - 11:40 AM, said:

There are many ways to deform metal. When it comes to elongation and compression, it would be one of the last things on the list.

Now if metal is being bent, sheared (cut into) or both is a different story.

Allizard responded in Outlaw's LM4 thread... perhaps this will help you center down to the problem.




On another note, you still are on the 45 day warranty. Have you submitted a ticket to the help desk to possibly have your LM4 looked at?

Hmmm...I just talked to my brother since he also used the gun this past weekend. #1 May have happened with him; it would explain why the follower on the magazine is chipped (especially with the denser .3's I was running). The over feeding of the magazine by +1 may be a problem, I used a speed loader to load the mags and the mag did not look like it was beyond capacity. I'll play around with a 40 round mag Vs. a 41 round mag tonight to see if the difference is noticeable.


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