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Low FPS?

FPS

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#1 Airsoft Fan

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 11:27 AM

I just got a really good deal on an ATP ($80 for ATP with polished slide, no orange tip :whistle: , and three mags :thumbsup: ) and I was wondering if my FPS was normal. It chronoed at 272 with green gas and .25 BBs. Is it too low or am I just hopped up on airsoft again?

#2 gcw360

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 11:51 AM

View PostAirsoft Fan, on 09 June 2013 - 11:27 AM, said:

I just got a really good deal on an ATP ($80 for ATP with polished slide, no orange tip :whistle: , and three mags :thumbsup: ) and I was wondering if my FPS was normal. It chronoed at 272 with green gas and .25 BBs. Is it too low or am I just hopped up on airsoft again?
I'd expect it to be a bit higher e.g., 330 w/ .2 or 295 w/ .25.  That's assuming room temp.  Have there been mods to the gun and is the hop-up off?

#3 Airsoft Fan

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 03:06 PM

I actually bought from a guy who only had it for a week after buying it from the original owner. I know the original owner, but haven't seen him since I bought it, so I don't know if he did anything. As for the hop-up, I honestly don't know how to adjust it on this gun :unsure: Telling me how would be helpful... If it needs a tool, I don't have one for it <_<

Edited by Airsoft Fan, 09 June 2013 - 03:07 PM.


#4 gcw360

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 04:08 PM

Here's the owner's manual: http://kwausa.com/im...P/mmd16_atp.pdf

See pages 9 and 10  for a description of hop-up adjustment.

Hope this helps.

#5 Airsoft Fan

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 05:43 PM

View Postgcw360, on 09 June 2013 - 04:08 PM, said:

Here's the owner's manual: http://kwausa.com/im...P/mmd16_atp.pdf

See pages 9 and 10  for a description of hop-up adjustment.

Hope this helps.
It does, thank you. :D
Now I'll just have to wait for the hop-up tool to come back in stock <_<

#6 jcleland

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 09:58 AM

I have the same type of problem. Mine seems to be mag-dependent though, so I suspect that I need to get some silicone on the valves. None of my 4 mags is really powerful, but a couple of them shoot 0.25's at 275-280 FPS (about 310 FPS for a 0.20). Then I have this ONE MAG that shoots 0.25's at 300-310 FPS. Still not awesome, but I'm satisfied with it.

The real problem is the hop-up. The hot mag sends BBs vertical while the others shoot nice and flat. I really need for them to be more consistent so I can set the hop up once and be done with it.

This is my second ATP Auto, just got it today. My last one didn't have a single problem, this one seems to have gremlins. I hope I can sort them out, would suck to spend all that scrilla on a gun and mags, only to trash it.

Oh, and suggestions are always welcome. I'm a complete dunce with respect to GBB pistols, being and AEG veteran. Thanks!

#7 jcleland

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 11:41 AM

Ok, I think I've figured out what's going on with my ATP Auto. After talking with a KWA rep, I was given quite a few ideas. One of them turned out to be the likely cause: The port on the magazine is not meeting the cylinder well enough and there is a gas leak. I confirmed this by pushing up on the bottom of my mag while shooting through the crono and my FPS went up to what I consider to be normal (about 305 FPS with 0.25's). Now, I'm trying to figure out what to do with the information. The obvious solution is to modify the gun as I'd rather not need to screw with each mag and deal with inconsistencies. I'm going to look into fiddling with the mag catch to see if I can get a tighter fit. I don't think there's anything I can do at the cylinder/valve that wouldn't cause a problem with the seal. I'll report back if I manage to work a solution.

Anyone experiencing the same type of problem, I would encourage you to try what I did: Press up on the bottom of the mag firmly while firing the pistol. See if this increases your fps. Oh, and it's probably a good idea to be sure that you have silicone on the cylinder and/or mag rubber :)

Cheers

#8 gcw360

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 01:25 PM

View Postjcleland, on 28 August 2013 - 11:41 AM, said:

Ok, I think I've figured out what's going on with my ATP Auto. After talking with a KWA rep, I was given quite a few ideas. One of them turned out to be the likely cause: The port on the magazine is not meeting the cylinder well enough and there is a gas leak. I confirmed this by pushing up on the bottom of my mag while shooting through the crono and my FPS went up to what I consider to be normal (about 305 FPS with 0.25's). Now, I'm trying to figure out what to do with the information. The obvious solution is to modify the gun as I'd rather not need to screw with each mag and deal with inconsistencies. I'm going to look into fiddling with the mag catch to see if I can get a tighter fit. I don't think there's anything I can do at the cylinder/valve that wouldn't cause a problem with the seal. I'll report back if I manage to work a solution.

Anyone experiencing the same type of problem, I would encourage you to try what I did: Press up on the bottom of the mag firmly while firing the pistol. See if this increases your fps. Oh, and it's probably a good idea to be sure that you have silicone on the cylinder and/or mag rubber :)

Cheers
Thank you for posting the follow-up

#9 jcleland

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 03:56 AM

I wonder if KWA has a potential solution to this problem. seems to me like larger rubber exits on the mags would fix things right away. maybe .8mm, that seems to be the 'clearance'. it's not like I think it would have an affect on feeding either as the mag sits that low anyway. unless you hold it in of course :) i don't see much that can be done in the slide without replacing the nozzle with thicker plastic. it would be NICE to have a 'single location fix', rather than needing a new part for each mag, however.

I've been looking at removing the mag release to see about adding a mm of metal to it and grinding the inside of the handle to accommodate, but I can't remove that thing. Anyone know how to remove the mag release? There seems to be an 'H' shaped part above it, but that thing doesn't budge. Not sure how to remove the plastic on the release side of the grip either. Help plz, I wil provide solutions in return :) :Iknow:

#10 jcleland

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 05:33 AM

Port on the looked like rubber, but just in case it was silicone I decided to soak it in silicone oil (maybe it would swell enough to make a difference. Looks like it's rubber.

Please fix this KWA, the ATP is a great gun but I can't rely on it for accuracy. Also, please help me remove the mag catch, I want to wrench on it as I mentioned. Thanks!

#11 gcw360

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 08:11 AM

View Postjcleland, on 29 August 2013 - 05:33 AM, said:

Port on the looked like rubber, but just in case it was silicone I decided to soak it in silicone oil (maybe it would swell enough to make a difference. Looks like it's rubber.

Please fix this KWA, the ATP is a great gun but I can't rely on it for accuracy. Also, please help me remove the mag catch, I want to wrench on it as I mentioned. Thanks!
You may want to send your gun in for repair.  I the ATP and the ATP auto and have not experienced this issue.  I'm not saying yours isn't real, just that it might be fixable in the KWA tech center.

#12 jcleland

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 05:37 PM

I resolved this issue by modifying the mag catch so that the magazine is held more firmly in the grip and makes better contact with the nozzle. I needed to remove the mag catch by releasing the torsion bar (Thanks John from KWA) and then cut a thin groove in the mag catch plastic. In this, I CA'ed a piece of carbon fiber and then used thick CA to around it to square everything off. The load bearing part of this assembly is still carbon fiber, however, and it's not likely that it will ever come out. Clean with alcohol first, rough things up, use thin CA then thick and accelerator. I needed about .7mm of height. When I insert the mag, it catches cleanly, but DOES NOT MOVE. It releases normally as well. I have four, they all work flawlessly. It took some filing and dremeling, but I'm satisfied with the fix and I'm back up to about 270 FPS with 0.30's, 315 FPS with 0.25's.

If you try something like this, I'd like to point out that the EASY solution would be to simply glue a piece of carbon fiber on top of the mag catch. The 2 or 3 x 1 mm (approx) bar would work fine and probably solve your problem... for a while. I'm afraid that eventually it would fall off though which is why I cut a groove (vertical like the grip) and inserted the rod on it's side. There is always pressure on it, so it can't go anywhere.

This mod is completely unnoticeable from the inside and out. You have to really look at it closely down the grip with a flashlight to see that something's been done.

Finally, I'm out of warranty. Were I within my 45 day warranty period, I MIGHT not have gone this route... but you never know. I like to screw with things myself :)

Best of luck,
James

#13 choochoo

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 11:59 AM

I just noticed this on my ATP Auto also.  Shooting between 200-270fps on KWA 0.25gm bbs on one magazine.  I could feel more gas being expelled onto my hand.  At first, I thought this was normal, but then with another magazine it was shooting consistently in the 280-300fps range.  I'll have to look into this....

#14 choochoo

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 09:44 AM

View Postjcleland, on 28 August 2013 - 11:41 AM, said:

Ok, I think I've figured out what's going on with my ATP Auto. After talking with a KWA rep, I was given quite a few ideas. One of them turned out to be the likely cause: The port on the magazine is not meeting the cylinder well enough and there is a gas leak. I confirmed this by pushing up on the bottom of my mag while shooting through the crono and my FPS went up to what I consider to be normal (about 305 FPS with 0.25's). Now, I'm trying to figure out what to do with the information. The obvious solution is to modify the gun as I'd rather not need to screw with each mag and deal with inconsistencies. I'm going to look into fiddling with the mag catch to see if I can get a tighter fit. I don't think there's anything I can do at the cylinder/valve that wouldn't cause a problem with the seal. I'll report back if I manage to work a solution.

Anyone experiencing the same type of problem, I would encourage you to try what I did: Press up on the bottom of the mag firmly while firing the pistol. See if this increases your fps. Oh, and it's probably a good idea to be sure that you have silicone on the cylinder and/or mag rubber :)

Cheers
Hmmm, I maybe having the same issue as you did.  I can only get about 15 shots off before the magazine is emptied of green gas.  I can see quite a bit of gas expelling from the front of the barrel, chamber and the bottom of the slide as it's blown back on each shot.  I noticed the magazine has about 1~2mm of vertical play when loaded in the gun.  I'll try pushing it up when I test the gun again tonight to see if it improves things.

#15 choochoo

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 10:09 AM

Nope, no play once the magazine is loaded and slide is forward.  With all 3 x 23rd magazines.  Will shoot at 280-300fps, the around the 15~17 shot, I'll get one low fps reading, then the next shot the magazine is out of gas.  This is filling each magazine for 20~25 sec on a full green gas canister.  This is on Semi, I didn't even bother auto.  Send it in for service????

#16 gcw360

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 04:46 PM

View Postchoochoo, on 16 September 2013 - 10:09 AM, said:

Nope, no play once the magazine is loaded and slide is forward.  With all 3 x 23rd magazines.  Will shoot at 280-300fps, the around the 15~17 shot, I'll get one low fps reading, then the next shot the magazine is out of gas.  This is filling each magazine for 20~25 sec on a full green gas canister.  This is on Semi, I didn't even bother auto.  Send it in for service????
Try a new can of gas.  Really.

#17 choochoo

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 11:37 AM

It was a new can of gas.

#18 gcw360

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 12:37 PM

View Postchoochoo, on 18 September 2013 - 11:37 AM, said:

It was a new can of gas.
What brand?

#19 jcleland

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 12:45 PM

View Postgcw360, on 18 September 2013 - 12:37 PM, said:

What brand?

now I'm curious... I used to use Valkan, but I order King Arms online now. Diff? better/worse?

#20 choochoo

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 03:33 PM

Airsplat.  It's what they sell at Tac City.  I have no problems with this gas on the MP9, which I can shoot through at least 2 magazines before needing to refill.





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