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#21 niko_gpsy

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 05:41 AM

Those FPS readings for an M130 is really low.  You are losing compression somewhere and first place to check would be the bucking and hop up as Linz pointed out.  You may want to lick that bucking before you insert it back into your hop up.  And you may even like it. :innocent:

#22 Cerveza

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 06:30 AM

Thanks again for doing this JR!

#23 JROC311

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 07:08 AM

No problem.
I'm going to do more testing tonight. I'm pretty sure It's not getting a good consistent seal from the nozzle to bucking.  Being that I do have low numbers I can't really say the reason for the longer barrel resulting in a loss in fps, I need to get that part figured out first. Once I get some consitency I'll go from there.
I was kind of frustrated last night after finding that I do have some compression issue somewhere but really that is a good thing about having a chrono. I would have never noticed or tried to remedy the situation before and now hopefully I can fix the problem and make it as good as it can/should be. I won't rule out a good licking to help the problem either.lol

I do like the xcortech chrono,(thanks again to Niko and GCW for the recommendation) It seems very accurate. I checked my m4 to see what kind of readings I would get and see if those numbers varied as much as the g36c. They did not. Only about a 2-3fps difference through ten shots with the majority hitting on 374 exactly . I was pretty pleased with that. That was with .28 king arms. When I used the .20 golden balls, it was more like a 5-7 fps change through ten shots. While tuning, I'll probably continue to chrono with the king arms just to help rule out any possible variables.

#24 niko_gpsy

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 12:59 PM

A good chrono is an invaluable tool when working on guns.  I am glad you are happy with our recommendation. :thumbsup:

#25 JROC311

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 08:01 AM

Did some more tinkering/testing yesterday and got roughly the same numbers with a little bit better consistency. I guess the licking helped with that.lol. I'm guessing that I have a settled spring that is giving me lower numbers. It's been installed for a couple of months now and I can't say for sure if it has ever been left compressed or not as I usually tell my son to shoot a few rounds in semi after we are done but maybe it wasn't every time, I can't say. The KWA m130 is still shooting harder than stock but just by about 15-20 fps.
I used a new, clean bucking in and retested both barrels again and got basically the same results except with a little better consitency.

The longer 395mm barrel still came in at about a 10 fps average drop over the stock 247mm barrel. If it's the cylinder or not I can't say without testing a different cylinder and right now I'm not going to test that to see.

As far as accuracy and range gains, the conditions with the wind were less than ideal but I could tell that the groupings were tighter and the trajectory was more flat to reach out to 180-200ft with the longer barrel. Was it enough to justify having the extra length on the gun? I'm not sure because one thing I'm afraid of is with the barrel sticking out further, covered by a some what flimsy barrel extension, I think it will be more apt to getting bent/broken/damaged say in a fall or a good whack on an obstacle. This is my sons gun and he has already done a unplanned Pete Rose slide on top of his g36c in a game. The field we usually play at is kind of rough with dips and swells all through it so if your not carefull the inevitable face plant is just around the corner. If it was my gun I wouldn't mind but being his I'm not sure it will be worth the change.

Since I already have a r hop patch made that will fit either barrel, next I'm going to try it with the stock barrel and see what kind of results I can get. Going by the results in my m4, I think they should be good in this too.

I ordered a part for the hop up yesterday so I can modify the hop up arm (or block would better describe it) and I will try this modification when it comes in. I also want to say the pro shop ROCKS! I called yesterday and talked to Veronica and asked her if I could just order the piece of the hop up unit that I needed instead of getting the complete unit (which is out of stock anyway), She took my number and said she would find out if they had the piece there and would call me back. A little later she called and said that they had it and she could send it out to me so I ordered it with a few other things and it should be here in a few days. KWA customer service FTW!

One more thing to note and is just my opinion but the more I work on this gun the more I LOVE my m4. Granted it is not a lot harder to work on but it is more time consuming to get the inner barrel out. I can have my barrel and hop up unit out of my m4 in less than a minute while it takes several to get them out of the g36c. I'm not saying the g36c is hard to work on by any means but it is more time consuming.

#26 niko_gpsy

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 09:39 AM

Thanks for the report JROC.  If the FPS is consistent even though the numbers are lower than expected, then I would agree with you that it may be just a case of settled spring.  At least the licking worked.  LOL

#27 killz_2004

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 05:34 PM

really glad this topic came up. i was looking to put a longer inner barrel into my g36c too but had a few questions about compatibility. do all inner barrels made for a particular model work for all manufacturers? i am basically looking for an inner barrel longer then the 247mm inner that comes stock, and i was gonna run a madbull surefire barrel extension to cover it. hoping to find a 350ish mm and use a 5" to 6" extension. any recommendations would be nice.. thanks so much

#28 Cerveza

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 05:56 PM

I was thinking of doing the same thing, but...

after doing some more reading I'm seeing a lot of talk about how longer barrels really accomplish little. It's the quality and inner diameter of the barrel that affect it's accuracy and not the length.

If you really want a longer barrel then this is what I was going to do:

247mm - Stock = 9.7"
395mm - 6.02 KM Head = 15.6"

So a 6" barrel extension/supressor would cover the 395mm inner barrel.

Instead of that I'm going to stick with the stock KWA barrel for the time being and probably put a Noveske on it. *If* I decide to go with that KM Head 395mm, I'll have to figure out an outer barrel that would allow me to retain the Noveske.

*BTW - My KWA G36C will be here this upcoming Friday :)

#29 R_King91303

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 05:58 PM

View Postkillz_2004, on 13 February 2012 - 05:34 PM, said:

really glad this topic came up. i was looking to put a longer inner barrel into my g36c too but had a few questions about compatibility. do all inner barrels made for a particular model work for all manufacturers? i am basically looking for an inner barrel longer then the 247mm inner that comes stock, and i was gonna run a madbull surefire barrel extension to cover it. hoping to find a 350ish mm and use a 5" to 6" extension. any recommendations would be nice.. thanks so much

As far as comparability, I think the general idea I have seen on the boards is that you may run into a slight loss of compression (& FPS as a result) if you run a inner barrel besides a KWA for the 2GX models. With that said I have now been thinking of either going with a Edgi precision KM4 inner barrel, or a SR10 inner barrel with a cylinder upgrade.


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#30 R_King91303

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 06:21 PM

View PostCerveza, on 13 February 2012 - 05:56 PM, said:

I was thinking of doing the same thing, but...

after doing some more reading I'm seeing a lot of talk about how longer barrels really accomplish little. It's the quality and inner diameter of the barrel that affect it's accuracy and not the length.

If you really want a longer barrel then this is what I was going to do:

247mm - Stock = 9.7"
395mm - 6.02 KM Head = 15.6"

So a 6" barrel extension/supressor would cover the 395mm inner barrel.

Instead of that I'm going to stick with the stock KWA barrel for the time being and probably put a Noveske on it. *If* I decide to go with that KM Head 395mm, I'll have to figure out an outer barrel that would allow me to retain the Noveske.

*BTW - My KWA G36C will be here this upcoming Friday

As a heads up, watch out with the Noveske. They have a tendency to "lock" if left on for an extended period of time. With the wider diameter style flash hider that's nasty with the G36 because you will not be able to remove the handguard. I know this from experience because it locked on my G36. I was able to get it off at the cost of tearing up the entire outer barrel / fuse assembly. (still waiting for them to get back in-stock in the pro shop :(  ) So I would recommend to not leave the flash hider on when not in use.


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Edited by R_King91303, 13 February 2012 - 06:22 PM.


#31 Cerveza

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 06:00 AM

Great advice R_King. I hadn't considered that the Noveske would have to come off each time I change the battery.

Eventually I'd like to change out the stock and relocate the battery, but that's way down the road.

#32 killz_2004

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 07:50 PM

im not so sure i understand why a new cylinder is required when going to a longer barrel can someone explain exactly why and if i would need a different cylinder. if a guy bought the edgi km4 inner barrel would i need to get a new cylinder for the g36c

#33 R_King91303

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 09:32 PM

It creates a vacuum effect. If the BB does not have enough air pressure behind it to push it out, then in theory it gets sucked back when the piston draws in air for the next cycle. I don't honestly think that the air pressure of the "inhale" would be sufficiently strong enough to actually pull back the BB, but I can see it significantly decreasing the FPS of the exiting BBs.


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#34 Cerveza

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 06:55 AM

View PostR_King91303, on 13 February 2012 - 06:21 PM, said:

With the wider diameter style flash hider that's nasty with the G36 because you will not be able to remove the handguard.

Does anyone know of some type of quick disconnect barrel adapter?

It would be a two piece set with piece A being 14mm CCW thread on one end with quick disconnect on the other, and piece B would be a quick disconnect on one end and 14mm thread on the other. If something like this exists it would be great to put in between the barrel and a Noveske on the G36 so the handguard could be removed for swapping/charging batteries.

#35 Guest_Allizard_*

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 03:14 PM

Vacuum effect or barrel suck only exist with extremely long inner barrel with extremely fast ROF.  Normally, it doesn't happen.  

Technically a type 1 cylinder can support 509mm barrel without loosing compression.  However, we choose to use a .5 cylinder for more effective with our design (nozzle) without loosing speed on piston return.   It's all about 2GX calculation....  :tsuki:



#36 R_King91303

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 05:05 PM

View PostAllizard, on 15 February 2012 - 03:14 PM, said:

Vacuum effect or barrel suck only exist with extremely long inner barrel with extremely fast ROF.  Normally, it doesn't happen.  

Technically a type 1 cylinder can support 509mm barrel without loosing compression.  However, we choose to use a .5 cylinder for more effective with our design (nozzle) without loosing speed on piston return.   It's all about 2GX calculation....  


...so now I am curious, would going with the type 1 cylinder be another option fix for the 11.1 V Lipo issue, since the problem appears to be speed related?


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#37 killz_2004

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 07:52 PM

gemtech halo or gemtech blackside could be an option. i am looking into the blackside myself to hide the edgi 395mm barrel. so does the g36c 2gx version have a type 1 cylinder stock or a .5? also is the flash hider a 14mm counter clockwise? just wanna make sure before i order barrel and gemtech blackside!  thanks alot this forum is cool as hell!

#38 2621

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 08:30 PM

Yes the threading is 14mm CCW.  And I have no idea about the stock cylinder specs.

#39 gcw360

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 08:59 PM

View Postkillz_2004, on 15 February 2012 - 07:52 PM, said:

gemtech halo or gemtech blackside could be an option. i am looking into the blackside myself to hide the edgi 395mm barrel. so does the g36c 2gx version have a type 1 cylinder stock or a .5? also is the flash hider a 14mm counter clockwise? just wanna make sure before i order barrel and gemtech blackside!  thanks alot this forum is cool as hell!
Stock cylinder is a type 1

#40 niko_gpsy

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 05:29 AM

View PostR_King91303, on 15 February 2012 - 05:05 PM, said:

...so now I am curious, would going with the type 1 cylinder be another option fix for the 11.1 V Lipo issue, since the problem appears to be speed related?


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It can but the speed issue may be more of the air nozzle release timing issue in relation to the speed of the piston cycle.  So you can easily resolve this by removing the sector gear chip or putting in a stiffer spring.  There are other extreme ways to resolve this issue but it's reserved for more of  extreme high speed builds.




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