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Which bucking/barrel combinations will work?


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#1 fuzzy001

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Posted 22 October 2008 - 03:08 PM

I've been thinking for sometime about getting a KWA M4A1 for some time now, and I've heard about the only mediocore stock accuracy.

Now I've been hearing that KWA is "brand" picky as to what buckings/barrels will fit?

I was wondering, whether a Prommy TBB+ Firefly bucking will work?
What about a KN or G&G barrel with a firefly bucking?

What is worse, the stock bucking or the stock barrel?

Also, will a Big Out H Nub work?

Thanks.

#2 Darkstar2520

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Posted 22 October 2008 - 04:06 PM

i could answer a few Prommy TBB+ Firefly bucking i heard works but its a tight fit. And Big Out H Nub will work. hope that helps  :)

#3 fuzzy001

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Posted 22 October 2008 - 04:11 PM

Will this "tight fit" effect performance of the barrel/bucking?  So you're saying that it'll only get in with some hardcore silicon oil?

#4 vic_man4

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Posted 22 October 2008 - 05:54 PM

View Postfuzzy001, on Oct 22 2008, 04:11 PM, said:

Will this "tight fit" effect performance of the barrel/bucking?  So you're saying that it'll only get in with some hardcore silicon oil?

oil and a bit of muscle :lol:

#5 fuzzy001

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Posted 22 October 2008 - 06:02 PM

Is the stock bucking for KWA good?

Will the stock bucking + Promy barrel > stock barrel + firefly bucking?
(In the event for some reason that I cannot get the firefly+promy to fit).

#6 brooklyn468

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Posted 22 October 2008 - 06:15 PM

View Postfuzzy001, on Oct 22 2008, 09:02 PM, said:

Is the stock bucking for KWA good?

Will the stock bucking + Promy barrel > stock barrel + firefly bucking?
(In the event for some reason that I cannot get the firefly+promy to fit).

The stock bucking isn't bad. It's pretty good. I would stick with the stock bucking and the Prommy barrel if the Prommy barrel and the Firefly bucking combo didn't work.

#7 Darkstar2520

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Posted 22 October 2008 - 06:33 PM

if it doesn't fit cant u get cut the extra 2mm off ?? im going to pinnacle airsoft tomorrow my local airsoft shop and thinking about the Promy barrel H nub and firefly would cutting that extra 2mm off effect the performance and would the $20 bucking really be worth it does it give noticeable  effect?? thanks

#8 brooklyn468

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Posted 22 October 2008 - 06:40 PM

View PostDarkstar2520, on Oct 22 2008, 09:33 PM, said:

if it doesn't fit cant u get cut the extra 2mm off ?? im going to pinnacle airsoft tomorrow my local airsoft shop and thinking about the Promy barrel H nub and firefly would cutting that extra 2mm off effect the performance and would the $20 bucking really be worth it does it give noticeable  effect?? thanks

It would depend on the cut. I would just not cut it.

#9 triple b

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Posted 22 October 2008 - 08:40 PM

KM TN fits with stock bucking

#10 fuzzy001

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Posted 23 October 2008 - 10:35 AM

So the Promy will fit with a tight squeeze, so using muscle and silicon oil...

Whats the thing about "cutting" some off?  What does this do?  Does it effect performance, or makes it fit..?

Also: Does someone have any videos/pictures as to how to disassemble the KWA m4 to the point where you can take on the Hop-up unit.  And once there, hop to replace the nub?

#11 Doctor Kajita

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Posted 23 October 2008 - 10:51 AM

View Postfuzzy001, on Oct 23 2008, 11:35 AM, said:

So the Promy will fit with a tight squeeze, so using muscle and silicon oil...

Whats the thing about "cutting" some off?  What does this do?  Does it effect performance, or makes it fit..?

Also: Does someone have any videos/pictures as to how to disassemble the KWA m4 to the point where you can take on the Hop-up unit.  And once there, hop to replace the nub?

As long as you use the stock bucking, you will be able to get it on most aftermarket barrels.  It is the thinnest bucking I have seen so far.

Regarding the cutting of the bucking.  A tight fitting bucking will have the tendency to bunch up and and get pushed further down the barrel when you try to slide a hop-up unit over it, so if reduce the amount of surface area the hop-up unit grips onto, you reduce the chances of it bunching up.

You should cut the end of the bucking that slides into the barrel first, for obvious reasons.  If you cut the other end, you cut the portion of the bucking that fits into the end of the barrel and you might risk cutting the nub on the bucking too.

#12 Stealthmaster14

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Posted 23 October 2008 - 04:29 PM

You don't want to cut the side of the bucking with the nub.  It is more rounded around there which probably helps to prevent double feeding and aids in compression.  

The madbull silicone buckings are really thin and flexible, but I bet the KWA stock bucking is better than those.

#13 fuzzy001

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Posted 23 October 2008 - 05:12 PM

I don't really understand this cutting.  (Can someone provide pictures..?)

The stock bucking is decent though, right?  Better than maybe a Systema bucking?  In the event the Promy+ Firefly doesn't work, I would hope I have atleast decent accuracy/range.

#14 Doctor Kajita

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Posted 23 October 2008 - 06:05 PM

View Postfuzzy001, on Oct 23 2008, 06:12 PM, said:

I don't really understand this cutting.  (Can someone provide pictures..?)

The stock bucking is decent though, right?  Better than maybe a Systema bucking?  In the event the Promy+ Firefly doesn't work, I would hope I have atleast decent accuracy/range.

http://www.airsoftfo...h...&p=17769466

You should just try the stock bucking for now.  I highly doubt the Firefly is going to fit...I will put my money on it.  If it does fit, good for you!  Serious, the less messing around you can do the better.  

I on the other hand have gone to great, unrelated, lengths to get the Prommy + Firefly combo.  From opening up my gearbox to re-wiring my gun to modifying various internals...all by choice, not by necessity, I might add.

One thing lead to another, I guess.

Edited by Doctor Kajita, 23 October 2008 - 06:07 PM.


#15 triple b

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Posted 23 October 2008 - 07:38 PM

I just tried a KM TN barrle with a fire fly...too tight i didn't want to ruin the hop up....guarder next but my KM TB fits with the stock bucking....

View Postfuzzy001, on Oct 22 2008, 04:08 PM, said:

I've been thinking for sometime about getting a KWA M4A1 for some time now, and I've heard about the only mediocore stock accuracy.

Now I've been hearing that KWA is "brand" picky as to what buckings/barrels will fit?

I was wondering, whether a Prommy TBB+ Firefly bucking will work?
What about a KN or G&G barrel with a firefly bucking?

What is worse, the stock bucking or the stock barrel?

Also, will a Big Out H Nub work?

Thanks.


#16 triple b

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Posted 23 October 2008 - 07:41 PM

no Video try mechbox.com its really is only one little bolt on the reciever then it opens up.....to reach the barrel and hop up


View Postfuzzy001, on Oct 23 2008, 11:35 AM, said:

So the Promy will fit with a tight squeeze, so using muscle and silicon oil...

Whats the thing about "cutting" some off?  What does this do?  Does it effect performance, or makes it fit..?

Also: Does someone have any videos/pictures as to how to disassemble the KWA m4 to the point where you can take on the Hop-up unit.  And once there, hop to replace the nub?


#17 brooklyn468

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Posted 24 October 2008 - 01:35 PM

I have a pretty good sight that shows you how to take apart your hop - up, but it is assumed that you know how to get it out of your gun  ;)

Try this out-
http://www.airsoftre...w...=118&cat=49

As for buckings, I would just stick with the stock bucking, and try using the Big Out H nub. This will fit. Besides, I heard rumors that it is better than the Firefly bucking. Just rumors, I don't have either  :lol:

#18 threadkill

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Posted 24 October 2008 - 01:56 PM

View Postfuzzy001, on Oct 23 2008, 02:35 PM, said:

So the Promy will fit with a tight squeeze, so using muscle and silicon oil...

Whats the thing about "cutting" some off?  What does this do?  Does it effect performance, or makes it fit..?

Also: Does someone have any videos/pictures as to how to disassemble the KWA m4 to the point where you can take on the Hop-up unit.  And once there, hop to replace the nub?

To remove the barrel from your gun, refer to your M4A1 manual. This is an easy step. There are also tons of uTube videos that show this step.

Here's a good vid on removing the hopup from the barrel; however, ignore the first part of the video, the only part that needs to be removed from the hopup chamber is the C-clip from the bottom. See at about 2:37 minutes into the video.  Also look at the associated videos; there are many.

I've personally been through the entire process of fitting and using the Firefly bucking (soft type) with the standard hopup chamber. On the topic of cutting down the overall length of the Firefly, consider that the wall thickness of the Firefly is greater than that of the stock bucking. However, it is the same length as the standard bucking. The only way it is going to fit in the smaller space between the barrel and the inside of the hopup chamber is if it compresses and elongates. If longer, it gets in the way of the C-clip. This is the only reason why it's trimmed.

Not only is it then longer, but since it requires a good deal of coaxing and twisting of the barrel and chamber to get it in place, there's a good chance that it will warp. Since the main feature of the Firefly is the little internal nubs that touch the BB for inducing backspin, the chances of them being off center or warped out of position becomes greater.

When I was test-fitting, I would look through the rear of the barrel with light and magnification and then activate the hopup. On many passes, the nubs would be off center; more than just twisting the chamber on the barrel could correct. By the way, with any bucking fitted, it's a good idea to look through the rear of the final chamber and barrel assembly and confirm that the rubber, with the hop turned up, goes straight and even into the barrel. You can actually twist the assembly "slightly" to tweak the alignment; ensure you get perfectly centered backspin.

Through much trial and error, I was able to get decent performance out of the Firefly, but given the difficulty getting it seated at the rear, felt I was not getting the best seal. In the end, I went back to the standard bucking with a Big H nub. If I again consider the Firefly, I'll follow our good doctor's lead and replace the entire chamber.

For replacing the nub, after you remove the barrel and bucking, you can coax a new nub into position. However, I found it easier to learn how to disassenble the hopup chamber gears and let the hop adjustment lever drop, making it easy to position the nub. There's a utube vid on this somewhere as well.

Oh, I also tried the Systema and the Guarder, both were also thicker. Since they were of a harder material, they could not be compressed in like the Firefly. Personally, I think the stock bucking is more than decent and will serve you well. This goes for all of the internal parts of the M4A1; it is all good out-of-the-box stuff (more personal experience speaking).

Summary: Prommy barrel or the TB barrel of your choice, along with the standard bucking and maybe the H-nub if you want to try something different. Search this forum for other configurations that have worked (Allizard's post on buckings comes to mind). Given the growing popularity of the KWA M4, I would not be surprised if a special edition of the Firefly or a clone was offered. I'd be in line for one,

#19 vic_man4

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Posted 25 October 2008 - 12:04 PM

View Postthreadkill, on Oct 24 2008, 01:56 PM, said:

To remove the barrel from your gun, refer to your M4A1 manual. This is an easy step. There are also tons of uTube videos that show this step.

Here's a good vid on removing the hopup from the barrel; however, ignore the first part of the video, the only part that needs to be removed from the hopup chamber is the C-clip from the bottom. See at about 2:37 minutes into the video.  Also look at the associated videos; there are many.

I've personally been through the entire process of fitting and using the Firefly bucking (soft type) with the standard hopup chamber. On the topic of cutting down the overall length of the Firefly, consider that the wall thickness of the Firefly is greater than that of the stock bucking. However, it is the same length as the standard bucking. The only way it is going to fit in the smaller space between the barrel and the inside of the hopup chamber is if it compresses and elongates. If longer, it gets in the way of the C-clip. This is the only reason why it's trimmed.

Not only is it then longer, but since it requires a good deal of coaxing and twisting of the barrel and chamber to get it in place, there's a good chance that it will warp. Since the main feature of the Firefly is the little internal nubs that touch the BB for inducing backspin, the chances of them being off center or warped out of position becomes greater.

When I was test-fitting, I would look through the rear of the barrel with light and magnification and then activate the hopup. On many passes, the nubs would be off center; more than just twisting the chamber on the barrel could correct. By the way, with any bucking fitted, it's a good idea to look through the rear of the final chamber and barrel assembly and confirm that the rubber, with the hop turned up, goes straight and even into the barrel. You can actually twist the assembly "slightly" to tweak the alignment; ensure you get perfectly centered backspin.

Through much trial and error, I was able to get decent performance out of the Firefly, but given the difficulty getting it seated at the rear, felt I was not getting the best seal. In the end, I went back to the standard bucking with a Big H nub. If I again consider the Firefly, I'll follow our good doctor's lead and replace the entire chamber.

For replacing the nub, after you remove the barrel and bucking, you can coax a new nub into position. However, I found it easier to learn how to disassenble the hopup chamber gears and let the hop adjustment lever drop, making it easy to position the nub. There's a utube vid on this somewhere as well.

Oh, I also tried the Systema and the Guarder, both were also thicker. Since they were of a harder material, they could not be compressed in like the Firefly. Personally, I think the stock bucking is more than decent and will serve you well. This goes for all of the internal parts of the M4A1; it is all good out-of-the-box stuff (more personal experience speaking).

Summary: Prommy barrel or the TB barrel of your choice, along with the standard bucking and maybe the H-nub if you want to try something different. Search this forum for other configurations that have worked (Allizard's post on buckings comes to mind). Given the growing popularity of the KWA M4, I would not be surprised if a special edition of the Firefly or a clone was offered. I'd be in line for one,

Good instructional, very informative  ;)

#20 apollolanding

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Posted 25 October 2008 - 12:46 PM

The Mad Bull Shark 60 Degree Silicone bucking will fit if you cut about 3-4mm off of the end.  Here's what I did using the stock barrel:  Remove the barrel and hop up chamber, turn the hop up all of the way down.  Clean all lube off of the exterior of the hop up end of the barrel using a water based degreaser.  Cut the Mad bull bucking by squeezing the bucking flat with a metal ruler. use an Exacto knife and push down through the bucking to cut it.  Do not use scisors as they will not make a straight cut.  Slide the bucking onto the degreased barrel end.  Now lube the heck out of the exterior of the bucking and twist as you push it into the hop up chamber.  Make sure not to displace the nub when you insert the barrel (if you left the hopup on, the nub WILL pop out).  As previously mentioned, look through the barrel and turn the hopup on and off to ensure that the nub is centered in the barrel slot.  Lube the entire barrel length and reinsert it into the outer barrel.  Close the patient up.  I used the H nub that came with the Shark.  With the H-nub I hardly have to dial up the hopup to get the desired spin (about half the abount as the stock bucking).  While not a "plug and play" operation, anybody with the slightest mechanical inclination can do it.  If you can put a model airplane together, you can do this.  Oh I am showing my age there... You see there used to be these things called models.  They were plastic and you put them together using a really stong smelling glue...  ;)

Edited by apollolanding, 08 November 2008 - 01:30 PM.





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