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Upgrades to KWA M16BR


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#1 Al Creigh

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 10:46 PM

So I just recently purchased a KWA M16BR from airspalt, and I must say I love the thing. It's a little big but I enjoy field much more than CQB. I have noticed that my main playing style is not the nitty gritty rushing around quick moving player. I rather stalk and setup a good ambush spot down a trail head or flanking slowly and place some good burst's on a enemy position and kill that way. So with this in mind I have been thinking of trying to maybe place $40-$60 of upgrades into my gun to give it just that much more edge over the competition. Even tho I out range most everyone already. So here are my goals

I want lipo I currently run a 11.1 (simply because I fly RC already don't want to change battery types)
I want to shoot .28's or .3's (just something heavy for accuracy and range)
I would like to shoot as fast as I can without going DMR (I find the most effective method for hits are 1-3 second bursts) was told M120 maybe in the right range, probably 450fps on .2's should be fine so like 400 on .28's?
I want to increase stock accuracy and EFFECTIVE range

Some ideas that have been thrown my way on how to achieve this
Tight bore barrel 6.01-6.03
Flat hop "Ryusoku baton Flat Hop" (says it will fit right into KWA hop up)
M120 spring
High Torque Motor
Sorbo Pad
Mosfet

If there is anything that I am missing or can recommend some good items that would fit in my list of recommend upgrades please let me know. I would like to avoid tearing into my gun's gear box too much and would like to just give it some more minor upgrades that will provide an increase in performance.

Thanks in advance for any response that I may get.

Edited by Al Creigh, 11 September 2013 - 10:50 PM.


#2 nbv386

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 11:32 AM

The stock barrel is fine unless you want to pay $60 for a Barrel that is not much better.

Flat hop is good and will increase range not accuracy. Also the stock barrel is great for flat hop, but is harder on some others.

I recommend a lonex a1 motor.

Sorobo pad will be good and even better if you fix AOE.

I don't know much about mosfets sorry.

Also you should have an m120 spring already you'll need a m130 and shim the gearbox.

Lastly if you can for the hop up I think rhop is better IMO but if you can't do it then flat hop will be just as fine.

#3 Al Creigh

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 12:31 PM

Interesting I have heard the inner barrel is pretty solid. I went with the flat hop simply because this is my first gun and heard that it is pretty easy to install. The Sorbo pad is mostly just to protect the gun right? So a M130 spring would get me what type of fps? Also how would I shim the box? I would have to have a tech do it if I don't have much expearince right?

I loose my warranty to when I do these mods right?

#4 vanevery

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 02:15 PM

Al Creigh.
Welcome to the Forums.
Lots of good guys here with years of experience working on and upgrading their KWA guns. Some will have different opinions and approaches to the same goal. Listen to everyone and do what you think is best.

Advice:
- Work within your skill level.
- Build toward your performance goals, don't chase them.
- Less is more, when first upgrading a KWA gun.
KWA's are great performers out of the box and great for upgrading in my experience.

Your Gun:
- You will be greatly surprised just how well your gun can perform with some simple changes that have nothing to do with going into the Gearbox.
- For $30-$40 you can get your gun to shoot distances and hit a target with precision accuracy.

Where to Start:
Bucking /  Inner Barrel / Quality Heavy Ammo/ Hop-up mods.

- Bucking:
Drop in a high quality after-market bucking.
I suggest(in order):
- Lonex 70 Degree
- G&G Green
- Prommy Purple
You can't go wrong with any of these.
My experience with the Lonex 70 Degree Bucking amazes me by what it can do.

- Inner Barrel:
Your stock inner barrel is good.
Before changing it, see what it can do.
You may discover there is no immediate need to change it.
If/when you go with an after-market inner barrel, I suggest a 455mm/6.03tbb inner barrel. You will simply shoot farther and more accurate with a quality 455mm inner barrel vs a 509mm of any brand.
Having said that, again, see what you can do with your stock inner barrel.
Note: Thoroughly clean your inner barrels for optimum performance.

- Quality Heavy Ammo:
This is a difference maker that will separate your gun from the rest.
Shoot nothing less than .30's. I prefer KWA brand for this weight. They are very good. You will find, though, that to be consistently accurate at long range, you need a minimum of .36. Trust me, it matters.

- Hop-up mods:
You will find that 50% of your guns shooting performance is Hop-up related.
So, no matter what you have in your gearbox, you will need to focus on this at some point. Much better to do this first, Gearbox second.
Mods:
- Flat-hop
- R-hop
- ER-hop
Al of these are definitely worth doing and will improve your guns shooting performance......mainly at long range.

Remember:
You do not have to spend a lot of money to get an upgrade in performance.
You can do a full tune-up and the rest if you want, but is not necessary at first.
I can promise you that your gun will out shoot 80% of the guns on any airsoft field with the recommendations above.

Edited by vanevery, 13 September 2013 - 01:15 PM.


#5 Al Creigh

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 04:17 PM

Vane that is igsactly the information I was looking for.  So from what I gather is I need to focus on the hop up, now you recommended a bucking but also a rhop and flat hop. Now if I do either of these mods won't that take the place of the bucking? I don't need a spring if I could just squeeze a little more externally rather then going in side the gear box, I am pleased with the fps.

#6 vanevery

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 05:55 PM

View PostAl Creigh, on 12 September 2013 - 04:17 PM, said:

Vane that is igsactly the information I was looking for.  So from what I gather is I need to focus on the hop up, now you recommended a bucking but also a rhop and flat hop. Now if I do either of these mods won't that take the place of the bucking? I don't need a spring if I could just squeeze a little more externally rather then going in side the gear box, I am pleased with the fps.

What I am saying is that before you Flat hop or R-hop,
Try one of the buckings I listed along with quality heavy ammo using your stock KWA inner barrel. Make sure to thoroughly clean the inner barrel and I suggest cleaning the Air/Cylinder Nozzle as well. Simply remove the upper receiver to access the Air Nozzle and swab the inside of it with cleaner, then dry it.
You may be quite surprised how much farther and accurate your gun is just by these simple changes. It will shoot like you spent a lot of money on the gearbox, but without the expense.

Note: I highly suggest dis-assembling your Hop-up unit for proper cleaning of the inner barrel and for Bucking and Nub installations. This ensures the Nub gets seated properly and not pushed out of the way by doing a straight-up barrel install. Here is where most of us learned how:
http://www.kwausa.co...p?showtopic=493

Then, try a 455mm/ 6.03tbb and continue to stay with one of the Drop-in Buckings that I listed and the quality heavy ammo.

Then, after you have gotten all the performance you can out of the quality Drop-in Buckings, go for Flat-hop or R-hop. If it is your first time doing either mod, start with the Flat-hop, then progress to R-hop.

I have spent the last year extensively testing all my KWA guns and others at a local paint ball field with distances measured off to 300' and 400'.
These tests include stock KWA guns, modified KWA guns and with many inner barrels of different lengths and bore sizes. These tests also include many Drop-in Buckings, Nubs, Nub Mods, and Hop-up mods such as Flat-hop and R-hop.

The biggest surprise that I discovered in all of this time at the range was how well quality Drop-in Buckings can perform. This requires the heavy ammo, though, so you will need no less than .30's.You also need more air volume, which your stock KWA 2GX Cylinder has, so you are good to go there.
You may find .36's work very well for around the 400fps mark, which is what your gun should be shooting. If you shoot 450fps with an upgraded spring, then graduate to .40's.

Edited by vanevery, 12 September 2013 - 06:04 PM.


#7 gcw360

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 11:55 AM

I would swap the inner barrel for a KM Head 6.02.  You will thank me (The M16 has the Taiwanese barrel, it;s ok, but not as good as the KM Head).  Heavy BB's, check.  Put in a FET AFTER something breaks.  Flat hop, OK or a simple nub reinforcement.  That's my 2 cents.

#8 Al Creigh

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 01:57 PM

So I am having some issues with the hop up right now. I t doesnt seem to really be effective at all. So when I have lets say a light BB in it I have sever over hop. Which i don't see much change in when adjusting the hop up. The only BB's that seem to fly on a level path are .3's but again no effect from hop up adjusment or very little. Do you think going with the lonexx bucking and nub would give me the best results?

#9 gcw360

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 02:53 PM

View PostAl Creigh, on 13 September 2013 - 01:57 PM, said:

So I am having some issues with the hop up right now. I t doesnt seem to really be effective at all. So when I have lets say a light BB in it I have sever over hop. Which i don't see much change in when adjusting the hop up. The only BB's that seem to fly on a level path are .3's but again no effect from hop up adjusment or very little. Do you think going with the lonexx bucking and nub would give me the best results?
Clean the barrel and the bucking as per the pinned thread.  See here: http://www.kwausa.co...?showtopic=8178

If that doesn't work you may need to reinforce the nub.

#10 vanevery

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 02:54 PM

Hop-up Unit:
One of two things (or both) is likely happening:

1. When airsoft guns are new, they often shoot out of the Air Nozzle extra grease that is inside the Cylinder.
This grease gets onto your bucking and renders your Hop ineffective.
Solution: Thoroughly clean inner barrel and bucking with warm soapy water, rinse, and thoroughly dry everything.
Check this out: http://www.kwausa.co...?showtopic=4787

2. Your Nub inside the Hop-up chamber is cut a bit too wide.This causes it to get stuck in one position and not move up and down with the Chamber Arm.
Solution: Take a Hobby Knife or a razor blade and trim a tiny bit or so off one side of the Nub. Use the width of your blade as a reference for how much to take off.

These solutions should solve the problem.

Lonex 70 Degree Bucking:
Yes.
I do think this bucking will give you the best results.
Remember this before installing this bucking:
1. Dis-assemble your Hop-up to install it
2. You will need some 100% silicone oil to install it for it is a thick rubber bucking and the tolerance of the KWA Hop-up unit is tighter than TM Spec.
A little on the bucking and in the Hop-up tube. Get something around 30wt.
This is what I use: Team Associated 30wt Shock Oil
http://www.amainhobb...CFUxo7Aod4FgAiA
3. Use heavy ammo of no less than .30.

Edited by vanevery, 13 September 2013 - 02:58 PM.





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