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#1 The Nutty Professor

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 03:48 PM

No I'm not talking 5000 round magazines but I wonder why the mags are limited in capacity. If they'll shoot through 60+ rounds without gassing back up why didn't the make the mags hold that? It would give a gasser a much better stance on the field. SureFire makes a high cap .223 mag so it's not totally out of bounds as far as realism. I carry 9 mags 342 rounds as compared to 684 is huge. Thats what 1 hi cap and a little. I'd still have to carry all those mags but it would make it worth the effort. I haven't taken a mag a part to see if it can be modified but after I get everything else buttoned up if some one else hasn't I sure will.

#2 netpoc

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 04:57 PM

Can't be done.

#3 akiraspeedstar

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 04:59 PM

You could maybe get 1-2 more BBs out of it if you drilled/shaved the base of the BB area down.

In regards to design, if it held more BBs by snaking around the mag (like a mid-cap design) it'd also hold less gas.

Edited by akiraspeedstar, 14 May 2013 - 05:01 PM.


#4 Chuck S

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 04:59 PM

The LM4 is marketed as a professional training rifle.  I'm not sure why the magazines hold 40 when they they should hold 30.  (I think the magpuls only hold 38 for some reason.)  Part of "professional training" is ammo conservation and changes.

-- Chuck

#5 The Nutty Professor

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 05:18 PM

Chuck I get that. I use mine to train for work. I mean as a skirmish product. When I'm working I load 30 rounds only. When it's for pleasure after work I'd like a more even footing. I don't count rounds when I train.

#6 The Nutty Professor

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 05:20 PM

Chuck I train for the real world with this using 30 rounds only. For play more rounds would be better.

#7 General Pickle

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 05:26 PM

View PostChuck S, on 14 May 2013 - 04:59 PM, said:

The LM4 is marketed as a professional training rifle.  I'm not sure why the magazines hold 40 when they they should hold 30.  (I think the magpuls only hold 38 for some reason.)  Part of "professional training" is ammo conservation and changes.

-- Chuck
I have to agree here. While we all wish we could have more ammo in less space that's exactly the point; real ammo is HEAVY and it takes a lot of SPACE, so high-cap mags and even mid-cap mags completely destroy any sense of ammo conservation. From a training point of view it makes perfect sense, and in an airsoft game sense it leaves you with less firepower and more realism. Isn't that why we all came to the GBB platform in the first place? If it were up to me I'd have all games be real-cap only, preferably GBB only. I think that for many people airsoft is a fun sport to just run around and dump BB's at each other, but for me I see it as a very powerful training tool IF you take it seriously and take the training aspects seriously. That doesn't mean we shouldn't have fun, but what I mean is that by making the game all about "fun" you get people in mil-sim games who have absolutely NO muzzle discipline, NO sense of ammo conservation, NO sense of command structure, NO developed tactics etc. it basically waters down the game into a BB spam fest where the guy running 50rps from an AEG with 200+ round magazines is obviously going to win in a fair fight. LMG's have huge capacity because they are support role weapons and they come at a huge cost for the soldier who chooses to use it, so in that case it actually makes sense but when every player has that ability then what's the point? Where is the skill in that? When that's the case you can run off and be a lone wolf because you've got the firepower of 10 guys. Real-cap and real-weight forces players to work together as tight team where suppression for your buddies is crucial, ammo conservation is critical, load out choice is vital to your ability to be effective, all of the little details come together to make a more involved and enriching experience. Some people just want to play speedball style airsoft, and that's fine and all but honestly it's kind of painful to see airsoft turning to the aspects I hated so much about paintball.

/rant

Anyway, I think realism should stay separate from sport-soft. Plain and simple.

Edit: I would like to clarify that I don't mean to target anybody here with that rant, I'm just getting very frustrated with the type of player's I've seen developing in my area, as it's very disappointing when you want to have a good game of tactics vs. tactics and an actual battle of skill but you end up with a "Who has the most BB's on them!" contest.

Edited by General Pickle, 14 May 2013 - 05:33 PM.


#8 The Nutty Professor

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 06:07 PM

Dude I did not mean to irritate you or anyone else. I hate paintball for the same reason. But reality is AEG's have more rounds. I did not say or want 100 200 or 500 rounds mags. Did you read the part about 9 mags. That doesn't count the 3 for my secondary. On my load if I can't use it I don't carry it.

#9 BeachEMT

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 06:10 PM

Chuck and Pickle- I hear you guys about realism and professional training. I use my LM4 for professional training. That being said I still would like to see the OPTION for a higher round count per magazine. Remember that you can always put less rounds in if you want realism, but you can't load it with more than the capacity. Personally, I love my LM4 and I would like to be able to use it at non-training events.

Like Akira said, the trade off would be less gas capacity. I would like to see a balance between the total number of shots it can fire and the number of BBs it holds per mag.

#10 The Nutty Professor

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 06:42 PM

Beach you got it.

#11 General Pickle

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 06:44 PM

View PostThe Nutty Professor, on 14 May 2013 - 06:07 PM, said:

Dude I did not mean to irritate you or anyone else. I hate paintball for the same reason. But reality is AEG's have more rounds. I did not say or want 100 200 or 500 rounds mags. Did you read the part about 9 mags. That doesn't count the 3 for my secondary. On my load if I can't use it I don't carry it.
And thus we see the problem of the internet: I meant for none of that to be directed personally towards you or any of your choices or thoughts regarding airsoft. I was trying to speak/type my current thoughts on the matter as I have seen them develop in my immediate area, particularly addressing the very serious issue of safety. Many players I see at regular fields in my area are completely oblivious to the concept of "muzzle discipline" which would normally not be an issue since we are in fact shooting each other on the field, but in the staging areas I have seen WAY too many negligent discharges where people have no eye protection on, and I honestly couldn't begin to count the amount of times I've been muzzle flashed at very inappropriate times. Again, I meant no personal jab at you or any of your ideas towards the game. Perhaps I was too emotional about the subject and worded my response too strongly.

#12 The Nutty Professor

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 06:54 PM

No I get it. I am a firearms instructor and the nightmares I've seen are only different because someone could lose more than a eye. I also watch a lot of ScoutTheDoggie and all the shooting at nothing because they have the ammo is what brought this up. 60 rounds isn't above realism. If AEG's were limited to fewer rounds I wouldn't even  entertain this idea. Give them 75 rounds and me 38 and let's roll.

#13 BeachEMT

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 07:47 PM

View PostGeneral Pickle, on 14 May 2013 - 06:44 PM, said:

in the staging areas I have seen WAY too many negligent discharges where people have no eye protection on, and I honestly couldn't begin to count the amount of times I've been muzzle flashed at very inappropriate times.

We have the exact same problem at my local fields. I was talking with one of the refs in the staging area between games and she was telling me how a kid had "tech-checked" his pistol while pointing it at the ground and the BB ricocheted and hit her in the eye (no eye pro of course).

Back to topic: I would also like to see the mags lightened. Considering there aren't really extreme or rapid changes in pressure, I would assume the walls of the mag could be thinner. Just look at GG cans (granted those are cylinders; I just had to mention that before any other engineers jumped on me).

Edited by BeachEMT, 14 May 2013 - 07:51 PM.


#14 General Pickle

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 08:33 PM

I think the problem is that the disposable GG and propane canisters are just that; they are meant to be thrown away so it' doesn't matter if they get dented or break after they are emptied the first time. The magazines of course have a lot of other stuff going on. That being said however I would also really like to have lighter magazines. Part of me likes having them heavy as hell (PMags for the win!) because when other players see how hard I play considering my weight and size they tend to be fairly confused. Most of the guys on my team are upwards of 250 pounds and complain about AEG parts being heavy now and then... so when a 145 pound guy runs all around with an LM4 set up... Heh, I like to call it "de-pussification." Not that it's entirely a bragging thing, it's just nice to train in a way that continues to tell your body "hey, sh*t sucks and it's gonna keep sucking, get over it." I've always wanted to see if LM4 mags could use a CO2 cartridge, thus making the mag shell lighter and possibly allowing more rounds for those who want that. I mean really, is it impossible to design a M4 GBB that uses CO2?

#15 BeachEMT

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 08:45 PM

WE has CO2 mags for their M4s so it isn't impossible. The pressure is just really hard on the internals. Your right about the disposable cans. What I was trying to get at is the fact that the walls of the LM4 gas camber is really thick compared to what they need to be. PMags have a protective plastic shell that would help prevent them from denting. Also if we want realism, who cares about the USGI mags getting a little dented or scratched, my RS D&H mags are a little beat up.

#16 General Pickle

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 09:02 PM

True, I wouldn't mind having dents and such myself, but I'm thinking maybe over time that would cause seals to fail and the overall integrity of the mag to fail. And for CO2 I figure if WE can pull it off why the hell can't the high quality brands do it? I mean it would just require a little beefier internals and maybe some better seals, plus then the recoil would be nicer and cool down effect would be lessened etc. Maybe there's more involved in that addition than we think.

#17 BeachEMT

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 12:15 AM

Depends on where it dents. The walls could always be thicker there, if that was determined to be a problem in R&D. As for CO2, your right about it's benefits and the fact that nice internals should run it fine. The problem is that no matter how nice and beefy the internals are, CO2 will wear them down faster. The nicer the internals, the more it will cost to replace. Also KWA doesn't have a reputation for being able to keep up a constant supply of spare parts.

#18 General Pickle

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 12:27 AM

That's a fair point, I mean it has already been hard enough to get parts for my LM4 mags...

#19 Rockhound117

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 06:04 AM

Perhaps a c02 drum mag is in order? I don't really see the USGI mags or PMags holding more rounds because of their dimensions. However, a big ol' drum mag with a hundred rounds and a c02 cartridge would be amazing. Heavy as hell, but amazing.

#20 BeachEMT

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 10:18 AM

The standard USGI and P-Mags could be designed to hold more rounds. The design would be like AEG midcaps. A drum mag would be really cool to see, but would be very far from the "professional training" mantra. Personally I would never use one, but I would be really excited to see someone get a drum made and working.




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