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MK series mags fill valve o-rings


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#1 realsteelshooter

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 04:29 PM

Does anyone have any words of wisdom here. I can't seem to keep the very, very small o-rings on the fill valves on my mags in place (read that - they fall out and are lost forever). My dealer has been very helpful & kind by replacing at least 5 of them for me now at no cost....however, this can't go on forever. I use my KWA as a training tool for shooting the Steel Challenge matches and right now i'm getting pretty frustrated. Thanks to any/all info. Hey....when it works it's a BLAST!

#2 Jatodude

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 04:32 PM

A buddy of mine got some Moondog Industries o-rings off evike.com some time ago for his MKIV. They have worked extremely well and haven't fallen out yet.

#3 aaps59

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 05:42 PM

Yep I highly recommend Moondog O-rings.

http://www.evike.com...oducts_id=33981

#4 gcw360

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 06:30 PM

View Postrealsteelshooter, on 06 August 2012 - 04:29 PM, said:

Does anyone have any words of wisdom here. I can't seem to keep the very, very small o-rings on the fill valves on my mags in place (read that - they fall out and are lost forever). My dealer has been very helpful & kind by replacing at least 5 of them for me now at no cost....however, this can't go on forever. I use my KWA as a training tool for shooting the Steel Challenge matches and right now i'm getting pretty frustrated. Thanks to any/all info. Hey....when it works it's a BLAST!
Hi realsteelshooter:

Welcome to the KWA Forums.  One trick that has worked for me is to place a drop of silicone oil on the file valve at the o-ring. It helps to keep it in place during and between fills.

#5 Outlaw1995

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 07:09 PM

Silicon oil, or upgrading to Moondog Industries o rings will certainly solve your problem. I've used the o rings myself and I have to say, they are absolutely amazing. Go pick up a set or two, as they are a needed component for all gas/fill valve related products...

#6 optimuskmg

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 08:13 PM

you could try a bit of sillicon adhesive, just make sure you dont get the adhesive in the actual fill port.
(probably a dumb/silly idea)

but the moondog o-rings are great! i have used them and they never dry out, and they stay snugly in place, though there big and tough to get in

#7 Outlaw1995

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 08:23 PM

View Postoptimuskmg, on 06 August 2012 - 08:13 PM, said:

you could try a bit of sillicon adhesive, just make sure you dont get the adhesive in the actual fill port.
(probably a dumb/silly idea)

but the moondog o-rings are great! i have used them and they never dry out, and they stay snugly in place, though there big and tough to get in
I would not try a silicon adhesive, (I'm assuming you mean some sort of thing that will stick to a surface) as that will bond the gas charging valve to the threads of the magazine inlet where the valve screws in. If the valve fails any other way, and you need to replace it, you won't be able to get your valve out since it is glued to the threads of that inlet. Now I could be wrong, as there may be a way to get the adhesive off, but I'd say you'd run into more trouble if you do that versus buying the o rings, applying some silicon oil to the valve, or buying a new valve.

#8 realsteelshooter

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 05:48 AM

Wow guys........ great responses and sooo quickly!. Thank you each and every one. I will be trying the mentioned o-rings.

#9 Brick Stone

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 07:01 AM

Ugh!  Come on guys.... Why pay so much for 6 O-rings!?!?! Read on!

View PostJatodude, on 06 August 2012 - 04:32 PM, said:

A buddy of mine got some Moondog Industries o-rings off evike.com some time ago for his MKIV. They have worked extremely well and haven't fallen out yet.

View Postaaps59, on 06 August 2012 - 05:42 PM, said:

Yep I highly recommend Moondog O-rings.

http://www.evike.com...oducts_id=33981


These are WAY overpriced!!!  5$ for 6 o-rings?   WTF is that? These are really soft and if you use metal adapters for propane or on the green gas it really tears into these quickly.

However, if you want the EXACT same O-ring that Moondog rapes you on... I'm here to help.

You can buy 25 of them for only $5.12 from McMaster-Carr.
Part number  9396K101 for 001size and Part Number 9396K102  for the same 002 size he sells.
Temperature range is -65° to +425° F. Durometer hardness is A70. FDA compliant. Color is red-orange.
These are the exact product he sells...  He just adds fancy words like "Aerospace grade" and you're also paying for his packaging.   Aerospace Grade though is not correct. FDA compliant means that these are food service grade.

Want a different O-ring?   You can also buy  Brown Viton® fluoroelastomer O-rings. These have the same excellent chemical and oil resistance as the Black Viton® fluoroelastomer O-rings, these O-rings are brown for easier material identification. Temperature range is -15° to +400° F. Durometer hardness is A75. Meet ASTM D2000/SAE J200. $6.74 for 100 of them!  Part Number 5267T11 for Size 001 and 5267T12 for the 002 size

If you want Buna-N O-rings which are all around perfect for these fill valves...
You can buy 100 of them for $2.01 from McMaster-Carr.
Buna-N is used in oil applications. Temperature range is -35° to +250° F. Durometer hardness is A70. Meets ASTM D2000/SAE J200. Color is black.   These are very similar if not the same as what is already on your valve.   you can keep these supple and performing top notch with the above suggestion of a drop of silicon oil. McMaster-Carr Part Number 9452K111 for size 001 and 9452K112 for the 002 size

Why pay Moondog's exorbitant prices?  When you can get the same thing in much larger quantities for much much less. You can even share them out with your buddies!

Just go here -->  http://www.mcmaster....o-rings/=iquw4r and select the 001 size or the 002 and the type you want.   You can even buy milspec Buna-n o-rings from there as well.

If searching the site is daunting.... Just do what I did and call (609) 689-3415   Amazing customer service. They will help you find what you need.  McMaster-Carr is the best source for for AEG wiring, fuses, inner barrel o-rings (spacers) and piston head o-rings too!

Stop paying so much and getting so little.  

PEACE

Edited by Brick Stone, 07 August 2012 - 07:41 AM.


#10 aaps59

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 08:56 PM

Well. I for one try to support Moondog, as I feel he is a contributor to the NYC's local airsoft community. He can charge what ever he wants for the O-rings, since he is really the only one that markets them directly to the airsoft market. Whether people want to pay that, is a different story...
But personally, I dont support mcmaster carr.

Edited by aaps59, 07 August 2012 - 08:56 PM.


#11 Brick Stone

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 03:40 PM



#12 optimuskmg

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 08:33 PM

View PostBrick Stone, on 07 August 2012 - 07:01 AM, said:

Ugh!  Come on guys.... Why pay so much for 6 O-rings!?!?! Read on!




These are WAY overpriced!!!  5$ for 6 o-rings?   WTF is that? These are really soft and if you use metal adapters for propane or on the green gas it really tears into these quickly.

However, if you want the EXACT same O-ring that Moondog rapes you on... I'm here to help.

You can buy 25 of them for only $5.12 from McMaster-Carr.
Part number  9396K101 for 001size and Part Number 9396K102  for the same 002 size he sells.
Temperature range is -65° to +425° F. Durometer hardness is A70. FDA compliant. Color is red-orange.
These are the exact product he sells...  He just adds fancy words like "Aerospace grade" and you're also paying for his packaging.   Aerospace Grade though is not correct. FDA compliant means that these are food service grade.

Want a different O-ring?   You can also buy  Brown Viton® fluoroelastomer O-rings. These have the same excellent chemical and oil resistance as the Black Viton® fluoroelastomer O-rings, these O-rings are brown for easier material identification. Temperature range is -15° to +400° F. Durometer hardness is A75. Meet ASTM D2000/SAE J200. $6.74 for 100 of them!  Part Number 5267T11 for Size 001 and 5267T12 for the 002 size

If you want Buna-N O-rings which are all around perfect for these fill valves...
You can buy 100 of them for $2.01 from McMaster-Carr.
Buna-N is used in oil applications. Temperature range is -35° to +250° F. Durometer hardness is A70. Meets ASTM D2000/SAE J200. Color is black.   These are very similar if not the same as what is already on your valve.   you can keep these supple and performing top notch with the above suggestion of a drop of silicon oil. McMaster-Carr Part Number 9452K111 for size 001 and 9452K112 for the 002 size

Why pay Moondog's exorbitant prices?  When you can get the same thing in much larger quantities for much much less. You can even share them out with your buddies!

Just go here -->  http://www.mcmaster....o-rings/=iquw4r and select the 001 size or the 002 and the type you want.   You can even buy milspec Buna-n o-rings from there as well.

If searching the site is daunting.... Just do what I did and call (609) 689-3415   Amazing customer service. They will help you find what you need.  McMaster-Carr is the best source for for AEG wiring, fuses, inner barrel o-rings (spacers) and piston head o-rings too!

Stop paying so much and getting so little.  

PEACE

sounds like an add for this guy. lol. but i for one am with Aaps, i like to support the local community, and KWA pro shop charges $5 for 4 o-rings? i dont think thats un-reasonable, which leads me to think these other valves you are paying pennies for, are not as high quality as the ones KWA supplies, or the moon dog o-rings. and i would rather have a softer o-ring get chewed up by my adapter, and replace that for a dollar, than have a harder o-ring chew through my plastic adapter.

Edited by optimuskmg, 09 August 2012 - 08:35 PM.


#13 Outlaw1995

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 08:47 PM

View Postoptimuskmg, on 09 August 2012 - 08:33 PM, said:


sounds like an add for this guy. lol. but i for one am with Aaps, i like to support the local community, and KWA pro shop charges $5 for 4 o-rings? i dont think thats un-reasonable, which leads me to think these other valves you are paying pennies for, are not as high quality as the ones KWA supplies, or the moon dog o-rings. and i would rather have a softer o-ring get chewed up by my adapter, and replace that for a dollar, than have a harder o-ring chew through my plastic adapter.
Maybe, but I think he is just trying to help us save money.

#14 optimuskmg

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 11:28 PM

No no! didnt mean it like that. just very well written.

#15 Brick Stone

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 06:52 AM

I should know today...I have a large order coming.  But I will add this for now.

KWA o-rings are flat.   not round. a round o-ring like moondogs will do a much better job sealing the fill valve.  I've just put my last 4 Moondog O-rings in... I didn't say I didn't like them... I listed the facts about them...   the one glaring fact is that they are costly... especially when you use a toothpick or needle to install them and you tear a couple.
I bought them last year and the difference is night and day. Buna-N o-rings are good as well and will give you the same results but they will not tear like these soft Silicon ones...

The one thing Moondog does wrong is misrepresent the product he sells by MARKETING it as AEROSPACE GRADE... It is not. They are only FDA approved.   Which means FOOD SERVICE GRADE.   I did the research and the ones on McMaster-Carr are the same... and I'm sure that is where he gets his...  

There are only a few manufacturers of high quality o-rings of this size in the world.   All the top notch stuff can be purchased by engineers and laymen alike from the McMaster-Carr site.   
This isn't some rinky dink operation. They are a global supplier of quite a few items.   Stuff like19 strand thick solid copper silver plated wire in 16 to 18 gauge, The stuff that was made for NASA is available to you at their site. It boasts the least amount of resistance of any wiring currently manufactured.   It is expensive, but you can buy 25 feet of it cheaply at this site for what you pay for 12 inches at an airsoft site for a trigger wiring harness.  That is if you can even get the same stuff. Most places would require you to buy a spool costing thousands of dollars before they would even entertain your order.  McMaster-Carr is the only site you can buy any length you choose.   It's that, versus the expensive small bits of AEG wiring you get from an airsoft store or online retailer.

Ok let's try this experiment...

NOTE TO MODS& STAFF - THIS IS NOT A SALES THREAD - I AM ASKING A SET OF HYPOTHETICAL QUESTIONS IN THE NEXT SECTION
Let's use the commonly accepted LOGIC we're seeing posted here exclusively and see what  any of you would say.

What if I was to market some o-rings myself and package them up in the same manner as Moondog does and sell you 10 o-rings for 6$ and they were the exact same thing....  Which they are.  If you read the specs you can plainly see that.

Based on the percieved logic alone... That means you as a player would also be compelled to support me, right? I am a local airsofter contributing to the hobby too right? So would you then continue to buy 6 o-rings for 5$  or would you want a better deal?  I would.

Moondog makes plenty of money at his job.   He's got a nice home and he supports his elderly relatives and has kids...  He doesn't actually need to make any money off these O-rings...  This is just a fact.  He's got a good life.  
I on the other hand have 3 kids, 2 of which are Autistic and require extra care that has put a huge strain on our finances and effected our standard of living.   I actually need the money more than he does.

So how does that play out with only using Aap's logic?   Would you continue to buy 6-orings for 5$ from him or would you help someone in need that was actually giving you a much better deal with 10 identical o-rings for 6$.   Would you still support the rich guy?  or the guy who actually could use the support more than him.   It's just a question.

Plus here is a bit of background on us both... I'm a US Marine Ret.  I am an engineer specializing in acoustic design and system mechanics,  I am Microsoft certified MCSE for Windows 2000, Vista and Windows 7.  I have a Microsoft developer license and can build you a fleet of PC"s for your office.  I am an A+ certified systems engineer. With those credential I work as an IT Consultant.  An IT"s job is to find you the best products for the best price and save the company the most money as he implements and manages a corporate intranet and other integral systems (that is just one set of jobs they do).

Moondog is a marketing executive... Uh hello!!! His sole profession is to find ways to get you to pay for stuff you don't need. That is the only purpose of a marketing executive.  I know, I've done that job too.  I still do that as well with certain clients within the scope of new business growth and establishing a presence in their market.

So as far as knowing about this product "o-rings"...  It is quite clear who has your best interest in mind...  Am I right?
I help you save your dollars for game day... He just overcharges you for tiny bits of silicone.

Again,  why pay more when you don't have to.
Would you pay an extra $3000.00 for a vehicle, just because the guy was local and you kinda liked him?  Or would you shop for the best deal you could find and get the most out of your money or your parents hard earned money.  Ask them if they want you to pay more for less.

I mean really make some sense out it for me and maybe I'll get it... From a logical standpoint though,  You can't, simply because it just doesn't make any at all.  Airsoft is expensive enough...  A REAL community hero finds you the better deal, He helps you keep the money in your pocket which in the long run makes this hobby more enjoyable...  A community hero shares his secrets and doesn't ask you for anything in return.

Today I should be getting a few hundred o-rings... for only 9$... So you can go ahead and support whomever you like...   That isn't really what I'm going on about though.   I'm here to support the community and get you the best deal there is...  Why not support me in the initiative versus just being a fanboy.   Because that's all it really is.  You're just arguing moot points after this.

Anyone here who wants FREE o-rings can simply PM me...   I'll put them in an envelope and ship em out.

For the rest of you... This is not a pissing contest.   You can do whatever you want... Your life,   Your decision.  Your money.   I don't care either way... If you want to stick to a particular principle.... Then that principle also applies to me as well...   If you suddenly saw the exact same o-rings for cheaper, offered by another local Airsofter... and then continued to pay more for less... Then I guess that action will speak for itself and will reveal a much more convoluted way of thinking.  I won't even bother trying to convince you.

As for me... I'm done with the subject.   I've said all I can...   Doesn't matter to me what you buy or use...   I'll save some money.  You can too.

PEACE

Edited by Brick Stone, 10 August 2012 - 07:58 AM.


#16 optimuskmg

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 11:05 AM

well, that said, still looking forward to the Stat's on your shooting test, will you be putting them here, or on another thread?

#17 Brick Stone

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 04:12 PM

This thread is not mine... this is the MK series mags fill valve o-rings thread Started by realsteelshooter, Aug 06 2012 07:29 PM

I will post on my thread for that subject...  I've been successful with propane...  The lack of green gas in my bottles is why, when filling I wasn't getting the shots...  The cans just didn't have enough pressure to fill the mags it seems.   I was also expecting some COOL KWA parts today but they didn't arrive... Hopefully tomorrow.

Edited by Brick Stone, 10 August 2012 - 04:13 PM.


#18 realsteelshooter

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 03:03 PM

Again folks.......... thanks for all the valuable input. I have some replacement o-rings ordered now. Anxious to get back to practicing. I never realized how much fun Air Soft could be..............

#19 optimuskmg

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 02:23 PM

View PostBrick Stone, on 10 August 2012 - 04:12 PM, said:

This thread is not mine... this is the MK series mags fill valve o-rings thread Started by realsteelshooter, Aug 06 2012 07:29 PM

I will post on my thread for that subject...  I've been successful with propane...  The lack of green gas in my bottles is why, when filling I wasn't getting the shots...  The cans just didn't have enough pressure to fill the mags it seems.   I was also expecting some COOL KWA parts today but they didn't arrive... Hopefully tomorrow.

what kinda stuff are you getting?

#20 Outlaw1995

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 04:45 PM

He got it already, check out his post in the PTP section: http://kwausa.com/fo...?showtopic=9395




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