Jump to content


I'm very dissatisfied...

m93r problem plastic barrel outer barrel fix

  • Please log in to reply
11 replies to this topic

#1 darrelleman

darrelleman

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 15 posts
  • Country:

Posted 04 February 2013 - 07:39 PM

So I posted a topic here a few days back about the problem with my m93r. I figured it out. Here is what I sent kwa help desk:
I discovered what the issue with my KWA M93r is; it is the plastic outer barrel. The metal slide comes in direct contact with the plastic outer barrel right about the hop up unit. At this point there is wear on the outer barrel. There is about a millimeter or so of plastic missing from the outer barrel at this point. Other than the missing material the contact created a ramp shape that forces the outer barrel under the part of the slide whose job it is to keep the outer barrel in place. This is hard to see in the pictures but the space between the top of the outer barrel and the lip of the slide that goes above it, is about three times bigger when the slide is locked up. The outer barrel is what holds the whole barrel assembly correctly in place in proportion to the position of the slide. When the outer barrel moves to far backward into the slide so does part #28. This is where the problem occurs. When the slide is forward on the m93r part #28 is sticking upward into its designated holes in the slide and almost flush with the slide itself. When the outer barrel moves too far back into the slide #28 contacts the ledges on the inside walls of the slide. This makes it so part #28 cannot move upward into its designated slots in the slide. When this happens the slide cannot move all the way forward causing it to lock up. The slide can only be pulled back because in this position the slide cannot move forward due to part #28 being stuck under the ledges on the inside walls of the slide.

Images: http://imgur.com/a/5DD5Z (I also have videos)

Clearly the problem here is kwa's poor decision to put a plastic barrel into the gun. I am being blamed for this issue because I use propane. If you understand how this gun works you know that propane only pushes the bb out the barrel and pushes the slide back. The wear on the plastic outer barrel is caused by the slide return spring which like everyone should understand is not effected by the use of propane. Now I am going to be charged $40+$15+ shipping to get this fixed if I send it to kwa. The other route is for me to spend $15+ shipping for the outer barrel and do it myself. Normally I would have no problem doing this if I was to blame. But it is clear that the poor decision to put a plastic barrel in the position where it contacts metal every shot fired is in fact not user error. I am very disappointed kwa.

#2 Outlaw1995

Outlaw1995

    Guru

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,713 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Acting, Piano, Films, Theatre, Firearms, Knives, Airsoft
  • Country:

Posted 05 February 2013 - 06:57 AM

Sorry to hear about the frustration dude. Here's what I understand about KWA's choice to use a plastic barrel in the M9/M93r series... during original development of the guns, KWA found that using a metal barrel would not be smart in the M9/M93r due to the barrel being exposed, and how it comes into contact with the slide. Their choice to make it polymer was to conserve the longevity of the gun. The plastic barrel works well and doesn't rub against the metal slide as hard, allowing the NS2 gas system to perform at its fullest potential...

With that said, it seems like those two plastic tabs on the plastic outer barrel you've pointed out on your imgur account seem to extend a little bit past where they should, blocking the slide from returning. These two plastic tabs aren't alive, and can't grow longer, so I'm guessing it has something to do with the locking block (part 28 on kwa's manual posted on their site). Check if the locking block is rounded where it gets pushed down and is engaged by the recoil spring. Also check if part 108 is there. 108 is the locking block spring and it keeps the locking block under spring tension.

#3 darrelleman

darrelleman

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 15 posts
  • Country:

Posted 05 February 2013 - 07:13 AM

Just fyi those tabs I circled on my imgur picture are made of metal but that is not important. 108 is there for sure and I am positive that what I described in my post is the cause of this problem.

#4 Outlaw1995

Outlaw1995

    Guru

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,713 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Acting, Piano, Films, Theatre, Firearms, Knives, Airsoft
  • Country:

Posted 05 February 2013 - 07:21 AM

Darrelle, for the price of a magazine is what it costs to send the gun in. I mean, if you can't make that payment I understand. But I've only seen this issue once before, and the guy who had the problem never fixed it. I suggest you send the gun in, so it can be repaired right, given a new 45 day warranty, so if anything else happens you can send it back in--free of charge-- and get it fixed again. I say it's a pretty sweet deal. While at the tech center, KWA will fix any and all problems your gun has... Even replace parts. For around $45 I say that is a pretty good deal.

And then, once you get the gun back, a KWA tech will state in the repair form what needed repair, what he fixed, etc, so you can watch out for the area so the problem could be prevented before it happens again. Plus, KWA's customer service is top notch. I really recommend submitting an RMA and getting your gun fixed.

kwausa.com/support

It sounds like there may be some real need for a modification to the slide so the locking block goes back into place. I'd only trust a KWA tech for that.

#5 darrelleman

darrelleman

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 15 posts
  • Country:

Posted 05 February 2013 - 07:50 AM

I just don't find it fair that I am held responsible financially for a problem that is clearly caused by kwa's decision to put a plastic outer barrel. I believe good customer service would be them to cover the cost because clearly I am not to blame for the plastic outer barrel. At most it costs them a small amount but gains them a repeat customer.

Edited by darrelleman, 05 February 2013 - 07:52 AM.


#6 Outlaw1995

Outlaw1995

    Guru

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,713 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Acting, Piano, Films, Theatre, Firearms, Knives, Airsoft
  • Country:

Posted 05 February 2013 - 08:19 AM

:/ I don't think the plastic barrel is the issue, but since you have the gun in your hands and I don't, you have more experience on the issue. It's great that KWA has a 45 day warranty, but like all products, once they go out of warranty, you must pay to get them replaced or fixed. Whether or not your use or misuse of propane was a deciding factor of whether or not it broke the gun, the gun is unfortunately still out of warranty. :/ which means you will have to pay one way or another to get it fixed.

Another thing to note... on the warranty card KWA specifically states that using "non approved propellants (i.e. propane, red gas, 134a...etc.)" will void warranty. Talk to KWA, they'll give you more definite answers than I could about how to go about proceeding. Submit an RMA and see what they could do.

kwausa.com/support

#7 darrelleman

darrelleman

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 15 posts
  • Country:

Posted 05 February 2013 - 08:57 AM

Well as far as I know it is the outer barrel so that is what I'm going on as of now. If I find out that my propane use caused the breakage then I have no problem paying. As I see it now though the problem is putting a plastic outer barrel into the gun. That is like putting a plastic axle in a car. You know it will break eventually, maybe not right away. And you do this to make the car lighter and perform better.

#8 Chuck S

Chuck S

    Guru

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,339 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cleveland, Ohio
  • Country:

Posted 05 February 2013 - 02:55 PM

The photos are too small for me to see anything.  (And I'm at a loss about your engineering background to immediately blame the plastic outer barrel for anything.)

-- Chuck

#9 xKingSizex

xKingSizex

    Customer Service Manager

  • Administrators
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,824 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Long Beach, CA
  • Interests:Umm, airsoft...
  • Country:

Posted 05 February 2013 - 03:53 PM

darreleman,
I'm sorry that you are having issues with your M93R II, and can understand your frustration. The materials we use for the outer barrel is a high impact polymer, and it is used in every KWA pistol except for the ATP. If the issue on your model was the outer barrel, it would be the issue on all models. The polymer was chosen for two reasons, first to extend the life of the gun as we found the metal barrel actually causes damage to the slide. So using the polymer barrel increases the life span, and replacing a slide is much more costly than replacing the outer barrel. Second reason we use the polymer is because it cycles the gun more smoothly as our polymers are a self lubricating polymer and the gun is able to transition with less friction. Again, extending the life of the product.

There is a lot that goes into engineering our products and making them last. It is also the reason we call out specific instructions on what gases, lubrication and ammunition to use. We have done extensive testing with our products to make sure that they last.

It is hard to tell by the size of the pics what exactly is going on with your specific pistol, but if we are able to see it in our Service Center we have a better chance of finding out what went wrong. If we decide it is a manufacture defect, we can take care of you...but either way, you will get a working product back in your hands.

~KingSize

#10 darrelleman

darrelleman

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 15 posts
  • Country:

Posted 05 February 2013 - 05:47 PM

View PostChuck S, on 05 February 2013 - 02:55 PM, said:

The photos are too small for me to see anything.  (And I'm at a loss about your engineering background to immediately blame the plastic outer barrel for anything.)


-- Chuck

I don't think it takes an engineer to understand that when polymer contacts aluminum the polymer will wear down.

Edited by darrelleman, 05 February 2013 - 05:48 PM.


#11 Guest_Allizard_*

Guest_Allizard_*
  • Guests

Posted 05 February 2013 - 07:13 PM

There are POM base material are high impact, high wear resistance against metal.  Metal also doesn't mean is superior material.
Your issue is not from normal wear.  Otherwise the LAST 5 year with all the polymer outer barrel pistols we have sold WORLD WIDE would have an epidemic problem.

#12 kwaispro727

kwaispro727

    Specialist

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 972 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New Jersey
  • Interests:Fishing, swimming, airsoft, real firearms, cars
  • Country:

Posted 10 February 2013 - 11:59 AM

My M9 doesn't have this problem.  I understand how annoying it can be especially if you just went outside your warranty like my MP7.  But such is life.  KWA has their reasons for using a polymer barrel, and in this case they are good reasons.  Whether or not you send the gun in is your choice, but I recommend you do.





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: m93r, problem, plastic barrel, outer barrel, fix

1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users