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MP7/GBB in MN...


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#1 chazdraves

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Posted 08 November 2009 - 10:27 AM

Greetings, all!

I do apologize if this gets asked a lot. I see a number of posts around the web stating that GBB pistols are worthless in temps below 40F, but I live in Minnesota and we don't see many 40F days during the 6 months of winter. I would really like to try a gas-powered airsoft gun as they seem like the only way to go if weather permits, but I have no experience with them. We typically play when it's 10F or above during the winter. Is it feasable to use this (or other KWA GBB weapons) in these temperatures? I understand most of the new KWA guns use a second generation gas system. I'm wondering if this helps with cold weather performance?

Thanks for your time!
- Chaz

#2 Spiggy

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Posted 09 November 2009 - 01:55 PM

the issue is not the design of the gun, but rather the nature of the propellant.

That said, 10F is far too cold for conventional gas guns.  At about 60F, you'll start seeing conventional gas guns get sluggish

#3 chazdraves

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Posted 09 November 2009 - 06:26 PM

View PostSpiggy, on 09 November 2009 - 01:55 PM, said:

the issue is not the design of the gun, but rather the nature of the propellant.

That said, 10F is far too cold for conventional gas guns.  At about 60F, you'll start seeing conventional gas guns get sluggish

Well, that's why I wanted to ask. I've never fired one before, but I heard the NS2 system allowed for greater expansion time which might allow it to fire in colder weather. It sounds like I'd best stick with electric save summer months? What about using CO2 or Red Gas?

Thanks for the head's up,
- Chaz

#4 gcw360

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Posted 09 November 2009 - 08:35 PM

View Postchazdraves, on 09 November 2009 - 06:26 PM, said:

Well, that's why I wanted to ask. I've never fired one before, but I heard the NS2 system allowed for greater expansion time which might allow it to fire in colder weather. It sounds like I'd best stick with electric save summer months? What about using CO2 or Red Gas?

Thanks for the head's up,
- Chaz
I figured that would try a little experiment.  Now, I've posted that the MP7 I have is putting up some great numbers, see: Umarex H&K MP7 [by KWA] - 400 FPS !!!!!

So I decided to gas up the gun with Green Gas and put it, the gun and the clip, in the refrigerator.  I took her down to 41.9 degrees F and took some chrono readings with .20 KSC BB's.

Here are the results:

3-4 seconds between shoots (just long enough to write down the reading).  Measured on an Xcortech X3200.

For Comparison:

Room Temp

.20 KSC (in order 5 rounds)
408.6 FPS
401.4 FPS
401.6 FPS
400.3 FPS
396.5 FPS

ROF 18.6 RPS


41.9 degrees

343.8
346.8
327.1
309.2
303.5
308.0
311.7
324.4
300.1
304.0

ROF = 16.86 RPS

While there is a significant difference in performance as one would expect in cold weather, they are not too shabby in my opinion.

Keep in mind, I chilled the gun to a true 42 degrees.  No body heat, no sun on a black surface.  No keeping the clip in an inside vest pocket.  It was COLD.

I hope this helps put into perspective the impact temperature could have on the MP7 which was your original question :thumbsup:

#5 chazdraves

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Posted 10 November 2009 - 09:52 AM

That helps a lot, now would you post the results of putting it in a freezer for a few hours? Data from 40F is useful, but I'm talking about chilling it another 30...

Thanks for the information!
- Chaz

#6 Spiggy

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Posted 10 November 2009 - 10:10 AM

View Postchazdraves, on 09 November 2009 - 06:26 PM, said:

Well, that's why I wanted to ask. I've never fired one before, but I heard the NS2 system allowed for greater expansion time which might allow it to fire in colder weather. It sounds like I'd best stick with electric save summer months? What about using CO2 or Red Gas?

Thanks for the head's up,
- Chaz
CO2 as of current is not an option.  Red gas will void all warranty of you gun since it can not be guaranteed as to what pressure and lubricant mix is exactly used.  Likewise, straight out propane, as there are different grades and mixes.  

It is best to stick with electric during the winter months.  As a long time gas gun user, I can tell you from experience, unless you're operating a remote HPA rig(which is not an option), there's no escape from thermodynamics.

#7 gcw360

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Posted 10 November 2009 - 11:17 AM

View Postchazdraves, on 10 November 2009 - 09:52 AM, said:

That helps a lot, now would you post the results of putting it in a freezer for a few hours? Data from 40F is useful, but I'm talking about chilling it another 30...

Thanks for the information!
- Chaz

Sorry, I won't be putting this gun in the freeze. Like Spiggy says, you can't avoid thermodynamics.  Stick with an AEG.

#8 chazdraves

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Posted 12 November 2009 - 03:45 AM

View Postgcw360, on 10 November 2009 - 11:17 AM, said:

Sorry, I won't be putting this gun in the freeze. Like Spiggy says, you can't avoid thermodynamics.  Stick with an AEG.

Hopefully, when I asked that, it came off as sarcasm as I wasn't serious :)

Thanks for the information. I guess I can be glad that it will save me some money.
- Chaz

#9 gcw360

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Posted 12 November 2009 - 06:11 AM

View Postchazdraves, on 12 November 2009 - 03:45 AM, said:

Hopefully, when I asked that, it came off as sarcasm as I wasn't serious :)

Thanks for the information. I guess I can be glad that it will save me some money.
- Chaz
No, that's how took it.  I just didn't want anyone else waiting for a follow-up :lol:

#10 galactica

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Posted 12 November 2009 - 02:12 PM

View Postgcw360, on 09 November 2009 - 08:35 PM, said:


41.9 degrees

343.8
346.8
327.1
309.2
303.5
308.0
311.7
324.4
300.1
304.0

ROF = 16.86 RPS

While there is a significant difference in performance as one would expect in cold weather, they are not too shabby in my opinion.

Keep in mind, I chilled the gun to a true 42 degrees.  No body heat, no sun on a black surface.  No keeping the clip in an inside vest pocket.  It was COLD.

I hope this helps put into perspective the impact temperature could have on the MP7 which was your original question :thumbsup:


yep, i did similar in 10 degrees celcius here in the UK. I got 290fps on an average, which is fine for the sort of games i'll be playing with it.

#11 Guest_allizard_*

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Posted 13 November 2009 - 12:49 PM

View Postgalactica, on 12 November 2009 - 02:12 PM, said:

yep, i did similar in 10 degrees celcius here in the UK. I got 290fps on an average, which is fine for the sort of games i'll be playing with it.

Glad you enjoy it...

BTW, you guys in UK have the most awesome place to play airsoft.  The mall, the office and the tunnel.

#12 galactica

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Posted 14 November 2009 - 01:55 PM

View Postallizard, on 13 November 2009 - 12:49 PM, said:

Glad you enjoy it...

BTW, you guys in UK have the most awesome place to play airsoft.  The mall, the office and the tunnel.

heh, yeah we are pretty lucky.  I play at The Mall all the time - the offices "Nakatomi" isn't open yet, but the tunnels...well. crazy.

We're also getting to use the army training sites more and more as they need the money, amazingly.  Today I played in an army cqb/fibua range that is built to be a Northern Ireland town facility, though it's been "Iraq-ified" nowadays.  Today was epic - thunder, lightning and pouring rain where the real guys do their training - but still getting kills from my KWA MP7 at great range.  god, I love this sh*t!

#13 Guest_Shogo_*

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Posted 14 November 2009 - 02:16 PM

That just makes me what to fly out to UK and play.   I can eat some Banger and Mash too.




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